Braves Trade Heyward, Walden to Cardinals for Miller and Tyrell Jenkins

When Heyward hits free agency his price is going to soar. Teams are foolishly over paying for defensive WAR when its not close to being a reliable metric.
 
I'd like to point out that sometimes the agent and player don't say the same thing. Close could have botched this for his client. Agents job is to get max money, and the strategy for betting on a Heyward break out was a good bet.

They preferred to gamble on his ability after being injured often at first... And he didn't respond. At that point you have painted yourself in a corner about hitting FA to create negotiating power. No reason now not to go to FA.
 
thethe said:
Heyward will not be elite defensievly for much longer. THe first few years of his next contract are going to be great but unless he figures out how to become a better hitter its not going to be good in the latter half.
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Heyward is getting better defensively right now, not declining.
 
thethe said:
When Heyward hits free agency his price is going to soar. Teams are foolishly over paying for defensive WAR when its not close to being a reliable metric.
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LMAO.
Now thethe is a better, smarter baseball decision maker than a guy who has won multiple World Series.
What else you sure about?
 
The Cardinals and Mozeliak are making foolish decisions, according to thethe. Yep, those Cardinals.
 
yeezus said:
LMAO.
Now thethe is a better, smarter baseball decision maker than a guy who has won multiple World Series.
What else you sure about?
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Did you see what Bill James wrote about WAR? That is why my feelings are even stronger about the shortcomings of WAR.
 
Tapate50 said:
Now ops is irrelevant .

This board really is the greatest.
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It is when you use the raw number. An 850 OPS right now is a much higher level offensively then it was 15 years ago. Some people don't seem to understand that and think Heyward sucks offensively because he doesn't have an 800 OPS.
 
skillet said:
Let me ask you something. Would you have given Jason $25MM per year for say 6 to 7 years or longer, because that is what it is going to take to sign him?
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Yes. I would sign him to maybe a higher per year deal to have him through his age 31 season instead of a monster 10+ year deal.
 
thewupk said:
It is when you use the raw number. An 850 OPS right now is a much higher level offensively then it was 15 years ago. Some people don't seem to understand that and think Heyward sucks offensively because he doesn't have an 800 OPS.
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And some people think Heyward is good while having an OPS in the low 700's because of an inexact number which gives a crazy amount of value to defense.
 
thethe said:
Heyward is going to be an awesome defensive player for another couple of years. I've always said that.
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If he doesn't get hurt. I always worry about him getting dinged up.

We need some games to talk about. Lots and lots of young talent on this club, just gonna be a few years before we are contenders possibly.
 
thewupk said:
Yes. I would sign him to maybe a higher per year deal to have him through his age 31 season instead of a monster 10+ year deal.
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You and 10 other teams are going to sign him to that deal. Unfortunately, the Braves can't afford that.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Yes, I use actual runs scored to measure past performance. FIP is a prediction tool but games are won and lost based on the actual score, not what FIP thinks the score should have been.
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And a pitcher has control over all of that right? Defense doesn't effect a pitchers ERA at all.
 
yeezus said:
The Cardinals and Mozeliak are making foolish decisions, according to thethe. Yep, those Cardinals.
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The Cardinals didn't extend Heyward did they?

They are going to get a tremendous player for 1 year. Good for them.
 
Carp said:
Braves and Heyward spoke last off-season on an extension. This is documented. Both sides exchanged numbers and Heyward ultimately settled on a 2 yr deal, making it very clear he was more interested in testing FA. You are fooling yourself if you think the Braves never offered an extension. May be they didn't offer this off-season. What does it matter? Heyward gonna magically change his mind to accept whatever offer was there last off-season?
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This is exactly what I'm saying. While all these extensions were being handed out like gravy, and somehow Heyward and the Braves only agreed on a 2 year deal, I thought that was a sure fire sign that he was NOT interested in extending long term, and he wanted to test free agency.
 
Fact remains the Cardinals have shown they know what they're doing more than we do. This looks like further proof.
 
thethe said:
Sure he has done it before but he has also been average for much of his career as well. We can't just think about his good times and not recognize that he had awkward hitting mechanics which caused a lot of inconsistency.
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When has he been 'average'? I hope your not talking about 2012 and 2013 when his offense was essentially the same despite certain counting numbers.
 
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