Post Post-Heyward Discussion Here.

You know where I think we ultimately blew it with this Heyward thing? I think Wren's biggest mistake was not moving Heyward to CF back in 2012 and instead signing Upton to play CF. That year we signed BJ we could have instead signed Tori Hunter to a 2 year deal at about 15 per year to play RF for us. Would have been a much better move. And it might have given us an opportunity to sign Heyward long term. Clearly BJ's contract is a huge hindrance for us right now. Hunter would have filled in nicely in the 2 hole as well.
 
yeezus said:
What gets me is, not one person who has been in support of dealing Heyward has been able to offer a direction to go in next off-season when we need more OFers. Especially if we trade Upton. Who out there will sign for what amount of money, and why will that be a better gamble than Heyward?
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I'd like to see us be aggressive on Dexter Fowler. I'm sure we'd have a plethora of options for LF.
 
weso1 said:
I'd like to see us be aggressive on Dexter Fowler. I'm sure we'd have a plethora of options for LF.
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Fowler will be a FA and 30 years old. IMO doesn't have Heyward's offensive upside and will be almost 30. I don't know what kind of deal he will get, but I imagine it will be over $17 mil a year. Maybe he's been so forgotten about in Houston that he will come as a bargain.
 
yeezus said:
Fowler will be a FA and 30 years old. IMO doesn't have Heyward's offensive upside and will be almost 30. I don't know what kind of deal he will get, but I imagine it will be over $17 mil a year. Maybe he's been so forgotten about in Houston that he will come as a bargain.
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No question he doesn't match Heyward, but a good bet to be a nice player over the next 5 years. Maybe 5 years 90 million or so? I could come up with a number of trade options as well and there's always a corner OF available to sign, but I don't want to get all murph3 on your ass. I'm sure you could come up with some.
 
weso1 said:
No question he doesn't match Heyward, but a good bet to be a nice player over the next 5 years. Maybe 5 years 90 million or so? I could come up with a number of trade options as well and there's always a corner OF available to sign, but I don't want to get all murph3 on your ass. I'm sure you could come up with some.
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Any good trade option will cost good young players, and with our system down a bit, not sure that would be the smartest thing.
I'm not sure why Fowler would sign for only 5 years personally.
 
yeezus said:
What gets me is, not one person who has been in support of dealing Heyward has been able to offer a direction to go in next off-season when we need more OFers. Especially if we trade Upton. Who out there will sign for what amount of money, and why will that be a better gamble than Heyward?
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How would anyone here know that? The front office must believe the amount required to re-sign Jason would devote too much of the payroll to too few players. I'm not saying that is right or wrong. I don't have a list of who may be prominent OF FAs after the 2015 season, but they will probably shop there as well as looking at non-tenders and arbitration-eligible players for teams with tighter payrolls than the Braves will have after Uggla comes off the books.
 
50PoundHead said:
How would anyone here know that? The front office must believe the amount required to re-sign Jason would devote too much of the payroll to too few players. I'm not saying that is right or wrong. I don't have a list of who may be prominent OF FAs after the 2015 season, but they will probably shop there as well as looking at non-tenders and arbitration-eligible players for teams with tighter payrolls than the Braves will have after Uggla comes off the books.
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The point is, good players don't come cheap. Any player worth a damn will cost money as a FA, or players in a trade. We're not going to magically find a really good OFer for $10 mil for the next 5 years. Either we're going to have to take a risk and sign an older vet to a shorter deal, a younger FA to a longer deal, or trade for someone. Each scenario presents risk.
 
yeezus said:
The point is, good players don't come cheap. Any player worth a damn will cost money as a FA, or players in a trade. We're not going to magically find a really good OFer for $10 mil for the next 5 years. Either we're going to have to take a risk and sign an older vet to a shorter deal, a younger FA to a longer deal, or trade for someone. Each scenario presents risk.
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Agreed. And signing Heyward to a 10-year, $260 million contract would be a risk too. It's all risk.
 
50PoundHead said:
Agreed. And signing Heyward to a 10-year, $260 million contract would be a risk too. It's all risk.
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Right. Heyward will not get $26 mil a year. Even with salary inflation...not going to happen.
Heyward at $22 mil/yr is, in my opinion, a better risk than we will find elsewhere.
 
yeezus said:
Right. Heyward will not get $26 mil a year. Even with salary inflation...not going to happen.
Heyward at $22 mil/yr is, in my opinion, a better risk than we will find elsewhere.
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Well, then we can offer him that when he becomes a free agent. I think the point here (and none of us knows this for sure) is that it appears Heyward wanted to test free agency. I don't blame him. Then, if you fail to sign him, you only get a draft pick. The front office wanted a better fallback position. I think that even those who vehemently decry the trade should be able to understand that dynamic.

To me, this all boils down to whether one believes the Braves could contend with Heyward in 2015. I don't think they can, so I guess that makes me a bit more understanding in all of this. Doesn't make me better than anyone. I just don't see the Braves as contenders as currently constructed (or previously constructed with Heyward).
 
50PoundHead said:
Well, then we can offer him that when he becomes a free agent. I think the point here (and none of us knows this for sure) is that it appears Heyward wanted to test free agency. I don't blame him. Then, if you fail to sign him, you only get a draft pick. The front office wanted a better fallback position. I think that even those who vehemently decry the trade should be able to understand that dynamic.

To me, this all boils down to whether one believes the Braves could contend with Heyward in 2015. I don't think they can, so I guess that makes me a bit more understanding in all of this. Doesn't make me better than anyone. I just don't see the Braves as contenders as currently constructed (or previously constructed with Heyward).
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I completely understand why the deal was made.
I don't see us competing any time soon without ponying money up for someone.
 
What salary would Heyward have to get in FA for those who are opposed to the trade to say it was probably the right call to trade him?
 
thethe said:
What salary would Heyward have to get in FA for those who are opposed to the trade to say it was probably the right call to trade him?
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If he gets 25 mil a year, I'll be shocked.
IMO he will get between 18 and 23.
 
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