Braves donate Justin Upton to Padres for prospects

I think the problem people have is the team didn't really need to rebuild. In fact, they probably could have gotten some major league pieces if they wanted. This seems like a forced rebuild based on hypothetically wanted to be good in 2017 vs continuing to try to improve every year.

Was a rebuild really necessary? Go out and find 1-2 position players and you are in the hunt for the NL east.

I understand Hart is a new GM for the team, but the strategy of last offseason is a complete opposite of this season.
 
gilesfan said:
I think the problem people have is the team didn't really need to rebuild. In fact, they probably could have gotten some major league pieces if they wanted. This seems like a forced rebuild based on hypothetically wanted to be good in 2017 vs continuing to try to improve every year.

Was a rebuild really necessary? Go out and find 1-2 position players and you are in the hunt for the NL east.

I understand Hart is a new GM for the team, but the strategy of last offseason is a complete opposite of this season.
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That's exactly it. We were a SP, CF, and a platoon partner for Johnson away from having a competitive team.
 
gilesfan said:
I think the problem people have is the team didn't really need to rebuild. In fact, they probably could have gotten some major league pieces if they wanted. This seems like a forced rebuild based on hypothetically wanted to be good in 2017 vs continuing to try to improve every year.

Was a rebuild really necessary? Go out and find 1-2 position players and you are in the hunt for the NL east.

I understand Hart is a new GM for the team, but the strategy of last offseason is a complete opposite of this season.
Click to expand...

In addition to what I mentioned, you could also argue that the Heyward trade and Markakis signing brought us to within a CF and a platoon partner for Johnson away from being a competitive team. If that wasn't the goal, why in the world did the team sign Markakis?
 
Dalyn said:
In addition to what I mentioned, you could also argue that the Heyward trade and Markakis signing brought us to within a CF and a platoon partner for Johnson away from being a competitive team. If that wasn't the goal, why in the world did the team sign Markakis?
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Could have moved Heyward to center and had Markakis or Upton in OF with him along with Gattis. Platoon partner for Johnson and Callaspo and that's a team that is competing for division title.
 
The absolute best case scenario was to resign Heyward and Uppy. But if that wasn't going to happen then this is a superior alternative to going all in on 2015. If you disagree with that, then you are gonna disagree with any rebuild.

I fully understand why Coppy wasn't given the head gig. The dinosaur crew needed a scapegoat for the fans in order to protect him.
 
BedellBrave said:
Imho, we needed 2 SP, 2B, a platoon for 3B, 2 bench guys, a CF, and at least 1 RP.

Y'all's glasses were more rose-colored than mine.

And we also needed a rebuilt farm system.
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Teheran
Wood
Minor
Hale

That would be fine with a #2 or #3 added. Also had Stella! for second with Peraza waiting. Correct about the bench, though I don't think with Fredi managing that the bench will ever be the difference between competing or not. CF for sure, though we could've used Heyward there like Giles mentioned.

Kimbrel
Walden
Simmons
Russell
Carpenter
Shreve
Varvaro

I think that's a fine bullpen, though 1 additional RP wouldn't have hurt.
 
Dalyn said:
Teheran
Wood
Minor
Hale

That would be fine with a #2 or #3 added. Also had Stella! for second with Peraza waiting. Correct about the bench, though I don't think with Fredi managing that the bench will ever be the difference between competing or not. CF for sure, though we could've used Heyward there like Giles mentioned.

Kimbrel
Walden
Simmons
Russell
Carpenter
Shreve
Varvaro

I think that's a fine bullpen, though 1 additional RP wouldn't have hurt.
Click to expand...

And it would have been no better. At least I don't see it.

And Heyward & Upton walk.

And the minor league is no better.
 
I can't see how anyone could look at last years team, the fact that Heyward and Justin are set to be FA and in no hurry to extend, and not conclude that the team needed to rebuild. The team was poorly constructed, and to a certain extent remains so. You're talking about one of the worst offenses in baseball last year. Even if you somehow replace the black holes in cf and 3b (which the Braves couldn't magic Yankees style), you still are very iffy on offense and are missing 2 starters since Miller wouldn't be here.

The team had too many holes, too many bad contracts (and still does) and no farm system of significance.

Wren was a disaster. But, to be fair, he may have been limited by the hand he was dealt. The team really should have rebuilt 3-4 years ago but tried to incrementally limp to success because Liberty didn't want to look like they were fire sale profiteers.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I can't see how anyone could look at last years team, the fact that Heyward and Justin are set to be FA and in no hurry to extend, and not conclude that the team needed to rebuild. The team was poorly constructed, and to a certain extent remains so. You're talking about one of the worst offenses in baseball last year. Even if you somehow replace the black holes in cf and 3b (which the Braves couldn't magic Yankees style), you still are very iffy on offense and are missing 2 starters since Miller wouldn't be here.

The team had too many holes, too many bad contracts (and still does) and no farm system of significance.

Wren was a disaster. But, to be fair, he may have been limited by the hand he was dealt. The team really should have rebuilt 3-4 years ago but tried to incrementally limp to success because Liberty didn't want to look like they were fire sale profiteers.
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^^^ This.

Markakis was a signing that either could help if Hart decided not to go full rebuild (try to remain somewhat competitive) or if he did go full rebuild (mans one outfield position and mentors younger guys).
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I can't see how anyone could look at last years team, the fact that Heyward and Justin are set to be FA and in no hurry to extend, and not conclude that the team needed to rebuild. The team was poorly constructed, and to a certain extent remains so. You're talking about one of the worst offenses in baseball last year. Even if you somehow replace the black holes in cf and 3b (which the Braves couldn't magic Yankees style), you still are very iffy on offense and are missing 2 starters since Miller wouldn't be here.

The team had too many holes, too many bad contracts (and still does) and no farm system of significance.

Wren was a disaster. But, to be fair, he may have been limited by the hand he was dealt. The team really should have rebuilt 3-4 years ago but tried to incrementally limp to success because Liberty didn't want to look like they were fire sale profiteers.
Click to expand...

nailed it.

I remembered we wanted to keep that streak alive and it finally failed. We did some patchwork you wouldn't believe until Liberty came in and tried to be frugal but relevant and took chances with a few iffiy trades, some panned out, but most didn't, this is the result.
 
So far, the whole Hart experiment doesn't look a lot better to me than the Wren event. There doesn't appear to be a coherent strategy at all, just a hap-hazard drunken walk toward spring training. The whole Markakis signing makes no sense, especially given his health issues.

The Braves would have been better off signing Lester, Peavy and Ross and dumping Upton, Heyward, Gattis and Minor for High A, AA bats with the expectation that 2017 is the date.

Sure, the offense would suck, but newsflash, it's going to suck anyway. Being the worst offense in baseball isn't much of a fall at this point.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
So far, the whole Hart experiment doesn't look a lot better to me than the Wren event. There doesn't appear to be a coherent strategy at all, just a hap-hazard drunken walk toward spring training. The whole Markakis signing makes no sense, especially given his health issues.

The Braves would have been better off signing Lester, Peavy and Ross and dumping Upton, Heyward, Gattis and Minor for High A, AA bats with the expectation that 2017 is the date.

Sure, the offense would suck, but newsflash, it's going to suck anyway. Being the worst offense in baseball isn't much of a fall at this point.
Click to expand...

With a 2017 goal, how would Lester and Peavy help them?
 
Hart seems to admit more than he probably wanted here: Hart conceded that the Braves began Upton trade talks looking for a different type of deal than the one they made. The original idea, he said, was to acquire a young MLB-ready player plus a prospect behind him. “We began to realize that just wasn’t going to present itself, (that) no matter how talented Justin Upton is there was just not a deal out there that was going to allow us to bring in a now-ready guy,” Hart said. “As we began to get our arms around this particular trade, we realized this would not be a deal that would impact us, other than financially, in the short term, but it would … strengthen a farm system that is right now one of the lower-ranked farm systems.”
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I can't see how anyone could look at last years team, the fact that Heyward and Justin are set to be FA and in no hurry to extend, and not conclude that the team needed to rebuild. The team was poorly constructed, and to a certain extent remains so. You're talking about one of the worst offenses in baseball last year. Even if you somehow replace the black holes in cf and 3b (which the Braves couldn't magic Yankees style), you still are very iffy on offense and are missing 2 starters since Miller wouldn't be here.

The team had too many holes, too many bad contracts (and still does) and no farm system of significance.

Wren was a disaster. But, to be fair, he may have been limited by the hand he was dealt. The team really should have rebuilt 3-4 years ago but tried to incrementally limp to success because Liberty didn't want to look like they were fire sale profiteers.
Click to expand...

Rebuild a team that had Freeman and Heyward just coming up? Yeah, wasting all those years to a rebuild (just like the team will be wasting all the cheap years of Simmons, Julio, and Freeman now) is a good thing.

What some people don't seem to realize is that rebuilding and getting back to a place where you can compete takes a long time and sometimes doesn't work. Look at the Pirates, Royals, and Astros just to name a few. Pirates and Royals took years (decades) to get to where they are. Astros are still searching. If you can contend then do it because it could be awhile till we get to the point we were at the last couple of years.
 
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