NBA Thread

thethe said:
True, but it also breaks down a players efficiency per minute and just jacking up shots and missing them isn't going to help that. You still have to produce which Russel is doing. I'm not saying he should win the MVP. I'm just saying he should be in the discussion and if OKC keeps winning like they have recently and he keeps having crazy performances then the argument gets that much stronger.
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No. The more shots he takes and maintains his current shooting percentage then his PER will go up. It's part of the reason why Kobe had a decent PER this year despite being horrible.
 
Kobe's PER was 17.6 this year. Average is 15.

No one on earth believes that Kobe was above average this year. PER rewards volume shooters.
 
thethe said:
I'm not saying that we can't look at them but to use them as the gospel as so many people are using nowadays is insanity. Raw stats still have a place in conversations.

The analytics movement in basketball is going way too fast if you ask me. When there are only 5 guys on a court and their skills must work together you can't accurately everything or nearly eveyrthing that impacts wins and losses.
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Raw stats don't have a place because they lack context.
 
thethe said:
I'm not saying that we can't look at them but to use them as the gospel as so many people are using nowadays is insanity. Raw stats still have a place in conversations.

The analytics movement in basketball is going way too fast if you ask me. When there are only 5 guys on a court and their skills must work together you can't accurately everything or nearly eveyrthing that impacts wins and losses.
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Anyone remember 2004 when the same was said about baseball?
 
gilesfan said:
Anyone remember 2004 when the same was said about baseball?
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Comparing basketball to baseball is ridiculous. There is very few sports that are more individualized than baseball. Basketball is highly team dependent which brings in variables that will never be able to be quantified.
 
chop2chip said:
No. The more shots he takes and maintains his current shooting percentage then his PER will go up. It's part of the reason why Kobe had a decent PER this year despite being horrible.
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Yes, and to maintain his current shooting percentages while shooting more and carrying more of the offensive burden makes it all the more impressive. Its easy when you are on a loaded team and you don't have to take on so much of the responsibility. RW is doing this wthout KD and before the most recent trades a very limited offensive team.
 
thethe said:
Comparing basketball to baseball is ridiculous. There is very few sports that are more individualized than baseball. Basketball is highly team dependent which brings in variables that will never be able to be quantified.
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Ok, Sir Charles, calm down. There are stats that quantify how good or bad individual players are to a very high degree. Certainly much better than judging by ppg, apg, bpg, etc. or anything that your buddy Heyward wants to use.

Getting a rebound is good. Putting the ball in the basket is good...they can be quantified.
 
thethe said:
Yes, and to maintain his current shooting percentages while shooting more and carrying more of the offensive burden makes it all the more impressive. Its easy when you are on a loaded team and you don't have to take on so much of the responsibility. RW is doing this wthout KD and before the most recent trades a very limited offensive team.
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The advanced analytics LOVE Russ this year. And over the last month they have him as one of the best players in the NBA.

But you just convenienty choose to forget that month where wasn't as good (at the time you very frustrated with him as evident by this thread).

You just lack the ability to be objective. That's why your evaluations aren't accurate. Advanced analytics, while not perfect, are at least perfect in being objective. Russ doesn't get to become the outlier just because you say so.
 
chop2chip said:
The advanced analytics LOVE Russ this year. And over the last month they have him as one of the best players in the NBA.

But you just convenienty choose to forget that month where wasn't as good (at the time you very frustrated with him as evident by this thread).

You just lack the ability to be objective. That's why your evaluations aren't accurate. Advanced analytics, while not perfect, are at least perfect in being objective. Russ doesn't get to become the outlier just because you say so.
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BUT HE WATCHES THE GAME!
 
chop2chip said:
The advanced analytics LOVE Russ this year. And over the last month they have him as one of the best players in the NBA.

But you just convenienty choose to forget that month where wasn't as good (at the time you very frustrated with him as evident by this thread).

You just lack the ability to be objective. That's why your evaluations aren't accurate. Advanced analytics, while not perfect, are at least perfect in being objective. Russ doesn't get to become the outlier just because you say so.
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My beef with Russ is that I'm not sure he is the perfect compliment to KD. That is still a valid argument.

What will be interesting moving forward is just how much of an impact having an offensive center like Kanter have on RW. They look like they've played together for a couple of yeras already. The PnR has been great between the two thus far.
 
gilesfan said:
Ok, Sir Charles, calm down. There are stats that quantify how good or bad individual players are to a very high degree. Certainly much better than judging by ppg, apg, bpg, etc. or anything that your buddy Heyward wants to use.

Getting a rebound is good. Putting the ball in the basket is good...they can be quantified.
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Yes, but how much of that bucket is related to how the team executes? Getting a rebound is great but should the person who boxes out the opposing big get more credit than the person who rebounds?
 
gilesfan said:
BUT HE WATCHES THE GAME!
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Do we need to rehash how many times I've been right about players the last 4-5 years? Sure, my track record in the other sports is awful but I know my basketball and you even admitted that recently to a certain extent.
 
thethe said:
My beef with Russ is that I'm not sure he is the perfect compliment to KD. That is still a valid argument.

What will be interesting moving forward is just how much of an impact having an offensive center like Kanter have on RW. They look like they've played together for a couple of yeras already. The PnR has been great between the two thus far.
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Kanter will improve because of Russ. There's a pretty size able upgrade going from Trey Burke to Russ.

But Kanter has zero track record of making his teammates better on offense because he doesn't pass well and he's just now learning to shoot the ball from outside.

I just find it funny that when Russ shoots under 40% for a whole month you are frustrated and upset with him, but after 10 games in February you think he's having an all time level season. How do you not find that ridiculous????
 
thethe said:
Do we need to rehash how many times I've been right about players the last 4-5 years? Sure, my track record in the other sports is awful but I know my basketball and you even admitted that recently to a certain extent.
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You are very good at finding reasons why certain Thunder players are good. In fact, you love cherry picking advanced analytics when it supports your argument and disregarding them entirely when they conflict with your opinion.
 
chop2chip said:
Kanter will improve because of Russ. There's a pretty size able upgrade going from Trey Burke to Russ.

But Kanter has zero track record of making his teammates better on offense because he doesn't pass well and he's just now learning to shoot the ball from outside.

I just find it funny that when Russ shoots under 40% for a whole month you are frustrated and upset with him, but after 10 games in February you think he's having an all time level season. How do you not find that ridiculous????
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On the whole this season Russ has been great. Yes, he had a rough stretch when the Thunder were in flux but as of late he is carrying the team with an injurred KD.

People always talk about spacing with three point shooters but a big that can roll creates massive space on the floor as well. Kanter is going to make things easier on Russ for sure.
 
chop2chip said:
You are very good at finding reasons why certain Thunder players are good. In fact, you love cherry picking advanced analytics when it supports your argument and disregarding them entirely when they conflict with your opinion.
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No, I know when a player will be good and then they become good!
 
thethe said:
On the whole this season Russ has been great. Yes, he had a rough stretch when the Thunder were in flux but as of late he is carrying the team with an injurred KD.

People always talk about spacing with three point shooters but a big that can roll creates massive space on the floor as well. Kanter is going to make things easier on Russ for sure.
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Kanter isn't that great out of the PNR.

Four years sample size > 2 games

And yes by every person on earth's account he's been fantastic this year, but those games in January count as much as the games in February. It's the reason why he's not close to Harden Curry or AD.
 
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