Pete Rose

I find it hard to fathom that betting would be the #1 cardinal sin in a baseball clubhouse.

PED's
Pine Tar
Corked Bats
Stealing Signs
Spitballing
Drug use
Prostitution

But it's betting that's the no sir cannot do?
 
BTW, I don't feel strongly one way or another on Pete Rose. I agree he had a HOF career but he seems to be pretty unlikable to me so it's hard for me to join the fight for him. I do agree with 50 in that if he is reinstated then so should be Joe Jackson.
 
AerchAngel said:
You questioned my position on Cobb.
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I question it too. He was a product of his times and his environment. Not justifying - through the lens of several decades - but he was hardly an exception. Judge Kennesaw Mountain Landis had no great love for blacks either. Presumably, you've seen the movie, "42," about Jackie Robinson. It probably wasn't exaggerated much for effect, if at all. Baseball history is full of scoundrels and lowlifes. Let's not forget that it through well into the 20th century, it wasn't considered a respectable way to make a living. In the case of Ty Cobb, he didn't like anyone. So, at least he didn't discriminate.

Oh, and as far as Pete Rose is concerned, deal with Shoeless Joe first. Then, we can talk about Pete.
 
Knucksie said:
I question it too. He was a product of his times and his environment. Not justifying - through the lens of several decades - but he was hardly an exception. Judge Kennesaw Mountain Landis had no great love for blacks either. Presumably, you've seen the movie, "42," about Jackie Robinson. It probably wasn't exaggerated much for effect, if at all. Baseball history is full of scoundrels and lowlifes. Let's not forget that it through well into the 20th century, it wasn't considered a respectable way to make a living. In the case of Ty Cobb, he didn't like anyone. So, at least he didn't discriminate.

Oh, and as far as Pete Rose is concerned, deal with Shoeless Joe first. Then, we can talk about Pete.
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Sorry if I am being a butt hole, but I get tired of people of calling me Carlton Banks and yet when I defend my people, I get slammed. I know Gilesfan is not racist per se, but his comment kind of put me away with the stories of what Cobb did intentionally to blacks. Yes, he hated everyone but really hated my race. Just imagine him and Gibson on the same team, now that would scary.
 
They need a Hall of Shame room inside the HOF for the bad boys. Capitalize on these players too.
 
Heywood said:
I find it hard to fathom that betting would be the #1 cardinal sin in a baseball clubhouse.

PED's
Pine Tar
Corked Bats
Stealing Signs
Spitballing
Drug use
Prostitution

But it's betting that's the no sir cannot do?
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You need to do your research on baseball. The reason the punishment for betting on baseball is so high is cause of the Black Sox scandal. When the horribly racist Kenesaw Mountain Landis (who shares my birthday) reacted sharply to the big problem of gambling's influence on baseball. The difference between what you're talking about and gambling is that everything you mentioned helps you get better, it's cheating but it's not throwing the game. Cheating to get ahead is looked on much more positively than cheating to stay irrelevant.
 
zitothebrave said:
You need to do your research on baseball. The reason the punishment for betting on baseball is so high is cause of the Black Sox scandal. When the horribly racist Kenesaw Mountain Landis (who shares my birthday) reacted sharply to the big problem of gambling's influence on baseball. The difference between what you're talking about and gambling is that everything you mentioned helps you get better, it's cheating but it's not throwing the game. Cheating to get ahead is looked on much more positively than cheating to stay irrelevant.
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Pete Rose didn't throw a game. That's why a blanket lifetime gambling ban is silly. Yunel threw a game and he's still playing.
 
AerchAngel said:
Ty Cobb is the most worse piece of sh it in Baseball. He hated blacks so much I cannot even type what he did and said.

And you think he is a Hall of Fame material? He make Jim Crow the advocate of blacks on how racist Cobb was.
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Ty Cobb wasn't just racist to blacks. He was racist to most any non-white race. Cobb was in general a real miserable prick.

But for his flaws, he didn't break the cardinal rule. Only people since 1920 or whenever who've been banned from baseball and stayed banned, have been from gambling. Even Mantle and Mays were banned for quite some time for simply are retirees working at a casino. Baseball doesn't **** around with gambling for a reason, and that was because someone threw the biggest series of them all.

Cobb is an insufferable jerk, and a terrible human being (regardless of being a "product of the era" or not) but he didn't break the main rule.
 
Dalyn said:
Pete Rose didn't throw a game. That's why a blanket lifetime gambling ban is silly. Yunel threw a game and he's still playing.
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DOesn't matter if he did or didn't throw a game. Doesn't matter if he did or didn't bet on the Reds. He was a manager in baseball with a lot of pull gambling. Which is a no no and on top of that he was betting on baseball. He ****ed up.
 
zitothebrave said:
DOesn't matter if he did or didn't throw a game. Doesn't matter if he did or didn't bet on the Reds. He was a manager in baseball with a lot of pull gambling. Which is a no no and on top of that he was betting on baseball. He ****ed up.
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Of course it matters. Look through all the bans regarding gambling and all except Rose (unless I missed one) involve throwing a game or games.
 
That's one of the reasons he was allowed the option to apply for reinstatement after ten years, which is also a big reason he agreed to the ban. Most people thought it would be fifteen years at most.
 
Heywood said:
I find it hard to fathom that betting would be the #1 cardinal sin in a baseball clubhouse.

PED's
Pine Tar
Corked Bats
Stealing Signs
Spitballing
Drug use
Prostitution

But it's betting that's the no sir cannot do?
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All those things you listed (that are on the field actions) are designed to help you do better and presumably help your team win. Losing on purpose to win a bet is another animal entirely.
 
Dalyn said:
Of course it matters. Look through all the bans regarding gambling and all except Rose (unless I missed one) involve throwing a game or games.
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Not true. Eugene Paulette was banned for associating with known gamblers. Joe Gedeon was banned for having knowledge of the Black Sox scandal. Didn't throw the games.

Others were banned for betting, not necessarily throwing games.

There's a reason the punishment was steep, and Rose knew this before he started gambling. He ****ed up, he chose this route.
 
I would be willing to bet....that a lot of baseball executives, coaches, and players gambled on games. Rich people bet all kinds of money on all kinds of things.
 
kendiz said:
I would be willing to bet....that a lot of baseball executives, coaches, and players gambled on games. Rich people bet all kinds of money on all kinds of things.
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Just another example of our unrealistic idealism. I don't mind the rule, but there should be some leeway in the enforcement of this situation.
 
Runnin said:
Just another example of our unrealistic idealism. I don't mind the rule, but there should be some leeway in the enforcement of this situation.
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And I certainly never minded his punishment, but to keep it open ended is overkill. To most folks...Pete is a HOFer....so letting him in would only be a big deal to the media. And I think it would be good for baseball in the long run. Moving on from something negative is always good.
 
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