Braves in talks with DBacks for Trevor Cahill

BTW just to add to this. I was talking to my cousin (lifetime Orioles fan) just 2 days ago about Markakis. He laughed his ass off at how much we spent. Went on to confirm that the stats are right, that he just doesn't have the range he used to have.And even more alarming just talked about how th eball doesn't jump off his bat. As is evident by his fading line drive distance.

I vote we still let him play and see how he does.... even though your cousin doesn't like him anymore.

I am an optimist, but I am not as down on this team as some of you are.

Some of these guys will step up by virtue of the opportunity they will have this year. Some will not make it, but I am anxious to see which ones will. I believe a couple of them will surprise and become stars. I don't yet know which, but finding out will make this season a lot of fun.
 
BTW just to add to this. I was talking to my cousin (lifetime Orioles fan) just 2 days ago about Markakis. He laughed his ass off at how much we spent. Went on to confirm that the stats are right, that he just doesn't have the range he used to have.And even more alarming just talked about how th eball doesn't jump off his bat. As is evident by his fading line drive distance.

Didn't you already mention this when we signed him? Thanks for the recap... cool story.
 
Yes. When he was 45 and 55. He's 75 now.

Wow. Hard to believe.

Nothing wrong with the philosophy he outlined. There's a whole lot wrong with the execution the last six months.

They're selling that Frank was tearing the organization apart, and they're putting it back together. You know what? Frank won. Maybe he was a d*ck, but he won. He was clever and brought a lot of talent to Atlanta.

If he hadn't rolled snake eyes on his big money acquisitions, he'd be here and we'd be competing . I was OK or enthusiastic about all of them except Mel.

I just think it's worthwhile to deconstruct the current narrative. The story we were told when Frank was fired didn't really compute from a performance perspective. And that part got overlooked because they also said oh, by the way, he was a giant penis, and everybody focused on that. Fact: we averaged more than 90 wins per season and were a perennial contender for the four years leading up to '14. Fact: We were in the hunt for the first 3/4 of that awful year, when multiple guys underperforming expected contributions finally caught up to us.

If you want to talk about Schuerholz's five point philosophy, Frank was a hell of a lot closer to executing it than the Three Johns.

I don't love Frank. But I sure don't see how this "Mukaki rebuild" makes sense. Heyward and Upton expiring? Sign one of them and augment with a Markakis. Invest in difference makers and player drafting/development. Stop spending middle money for mediocre players.

This seems sensible, until the last bit. Nobody here is certain that either of Heyward or J. Upton would've been willing to forego free agency. (We'll know the answer in < 7 months.) In the end, prediction is that the return on Heyward will be more than reasonable, and certainly better than a sandwich pick.
 
I vote we still let him play and see how he does.... even though you cousin doesn't like him anymore.

I am an optimist, but I am not as down on this team as some of you are.

Some of these guys will step up by virtue of the opportunity they will have this year. Some will not make it, but I am anxious to see which ones will. I believe a couple of them will surprise and become stars. I don't yet know which, but finding out will make this season a lot of fun.

Thank you. Can we see what he does first? With all the money thrown around this offseason his contract actually seems pretty reasonable to me. Money is fine the only issue was the 4th year.
 
Markakis is not a good player. A baffling decision to sign him to what we did. That has nothing to do with jason heyward
 
Markakis is not a good player. A baffling decision to sign him to what we did. That has nothing to do with jason heyward
As baffling as it is, to say he's not good or whatever is not accurate. Let's just play pin the tail on the Jackax who signed him, but for crying out loud Markakis is serviceable for a little while anyways.
 
It's simply not the case anymore. Teams are smarter and won't take on garbage. We couldn't give away Chris Johnson or BJ Upton because of their contracts. Markakis will be similar.

Chris Johnson is easily tradeable if they wanted to dump him.

BJ Is a dumpster fire.

Markakis at 2/20ish is tradeable.
 
The year before ESPN had ceded the NL East to Washington and we won 96 games, blew them out. I'm not willing to concede that this team as it was constructed on 10/1/14, with a few adjustments, wouldn't have been a contender in 2015.

I will concede this was probably the better long range development move. It better be, you brought in 15 minor league players.

Water under the bridge, anyway. It's done. Go Braves.

Yes, contend for a WC spot, lose in the WC game, 1st round.

Jason and Justin leave for late 1st round picks.

All we could add with them were table scraps.

Odds are we wouldnt do much with that same team next year, it was too flawed, some people just dont want to admit it because they dont like the new FO, mainly Hart.
 
Yes. When he was 45 and 55. He's 75 now.

Wow. Hard to believe.

Nothing wrong with the philosophy he outlined. There's a whole lot wrong with the execution the last six months.

They're selling that Frank was tearing the organization apart, and they're putting it back together. You know what? Frank won. Maybe he was a d*ck, but he won. He was clever and brought a lot of talent to Atlanta.

If he hadn't rolled snake eyes on his big money acquisitions, he'd be here and we'd be competing . I was OK or enthusiastic about all of them except Mel.

I just think it's worthwhile to deconstruct the current narrative. The story we were told when Frank was fired didn't really compute from a performance perspective. And that part got overlooked because they also said oh, by the way, he was a giant penis, and everybody focused on that. Fact: we averaged more than 90 wins per season and were a perennial contender for the four years leading up to '14. Fact: We were in the hunt for the first 3/4 of that awful year, when multiple guys underperforming expected contributions finally caught up to us.

If you want to talk about Schuerholz's five point philosophy, Frank was a hell of a lot closer to executing it than the Three Johns.

I don't love Frank. But I sure don't see how this "Mukaki rebuild" makes sense. Heyward and Upton expiring? Sign one of them and augment with a Markakis. Invest in difference makers and player drafting/development. Stop spending middle money for mediocre players.

I always thought Wren's problem is that he didn't have an overall blueprint that dictated his moves. I'm not arguing that he didn't do well or that he didn't walk into a fairly high-pressure situation. Having Schuerholz (who really started screwing things up late in his tenure) looking over your shoulder and expecting you to be competitive with a tight payroll couldn't have been a walk in the park. But I always thought Wren was erratic in that he acted like a big-market club and a mid-market club at the same time.

I like Roy Clark, but he's not a demigod. But there's no question that the draft/international free agency approach went in a different direction under Wren. He graduated a lot of guys and some have been impressive (although Simmons was rushed and I think it shows in his approach at the plate) for the most part. But given a couple of bad signings, prospect-laden trades away from us, and some bad luck, the team came to a crossroads. I don't think we were contenders this year had we gone forward with the same team. The offense was inconsistent last year and likely would have been better, but I don't know how you replace 400+ innings (approximately 600 if Minor doesn't get healthy) and compete within the team's financial constraints. I agree that keep one of Heyward or J. Upton could have made sense and may have fit in the budget (I would have preferred Heyward), but there was going to have to be a rebuild at some level. Things came to a crossroads and we didn't have the budget to keep juggling things around.

The thing that frustrates me now is that there seems to be a lot of blaming and not a recognition of where the team was actually at as the 2014 season ended. I think we would have had to ride through 2015 and hope everything fell into place or taken dramatic steps. I think a plausible argument can be made that we have taken too many and too dramatic steps, but I don't think we could have simply tweaked the status quo. Can't prove the negative, so I could well be wrong, but everyone else is in the same boat.

As for Fredi, I thought he was a decent manager when he was in Florida, but given the composition of last year's team, he was pretty much stuck with what he had and had to hope everyone played well and consistently. It didn't add up for him and he made his share of blunders, but he had an 8-guy team and, like I said, all eight guys had to match what they did in 2013. Didn't happen. The front office team seems committed to Fredi and I frankly don't care one way or the other. He's going to "manage" this year and that's not always a good thing. It usually means you don't have that much talent so you're trying to make things happen. It's going to be an interesting season. I'm still sticking with a low-70-win season. I just don't think we're going to hit much.
 
You better believe if Cahil has a bounceback year that they will consider using those option years. 13M for a good #3 (hopefully a #2) is real cheap.

He's not a 2/3 pitcher. He's a 4ish ERA guy. A spot that would hopefully be filled by a young guy with potential if possible.
 
I always thought Wren's problem is that he didn't have an overall blueprint that dictated his moves. I'm not arguing that he didn't do well or that he didn't walk into a fairly high-pressure situation. Having Schuerholz (who really started screwing things up late in his tenure) looking over your shoulder and expecting you to be competitive with a tight payroll couldn't have been a walk in the park. But I always thought Wren was erratic in that he acted like a big-market club and a mid-market club at the same time.

I like Roy Clark, but he's not a demigod. But there's no question that the draft/international free agency approach went in a different direction under Wren. He graduated a lot of guys and some have been impressive (although Simmons was rushed and I think it shows in his approach at the plate) for the most part. But given a couple of bad signings, prospect-laden trades away from us, and some bad luck, the team came to a crossroads. I don't think we were contenders this year had we gone forward with the same team. The offense was inconsistent last year and likely would have been better, but I don't know how you replace 400+ innings (approximately 600 if Minor doesn't get healthy) and compete within the team's financial constraints. I agree that keep one of Heyward or J. Upton could have made sense and may have fit in the budget (I would have preferred Heyward), but there was going to have to be a rebuild at some level. Things came to a crossroads and we didn't have the budget to keep juggling things around.

The thing that frustrates me now is that there seems to be a lot of blaming and not a recognition of where the team was actually at as the 2014 season ended. I think we would have had to ride through 2015 and hope everything fell into place or taken dramatic steps. I think a plausible argument can be made that we have taken too many and too dramatic steps, but I don't think we could have simply tweaked the status quo. Can't prove the negative, so I could well be wrong, but everyone else is in the same boat.

As for Fredi, I thought he was a decent manager when he was in Florida, but given the composition of last year's team, he was pretty much stuck with what he had and had to hope everyone played well and consistently. It didn't add up for him and he made his share of blunders, but he had an 8-guy team and, like I said, all eight guys had to match what they did in 2013. Didn't happen. The front office team seems committed to Fredi and I frankly don't care one way or the other. He's going to "manage" this year and that's not always a good thing. It usually means you don't have that much talent so you're trying to make things happen. It's going to be an interesting season. I'm still sticking with a low-70-win season. I just don't think we're going to hit much.

Pretty tough to disagree with any of that. If one of them were to have been kept, I'd personally have preferred keeping Justin (and it has nothing at all to do with a dislike for Heyward). You KNEW what you had in Justin, and he was "that guy" that you could put behind Freddie so people wouldn't pitch around him. I can also see the argument that trading him was overkill to a point - Fried is an absolute wildcard, and while everybody seemingly loves Peterson, we did have Peraza and Albies on the way. They could have asked for Tony Kemp or Nolan Fontana instead of Thurman in the Gattis deal and gotten another utility guy.
 
He's not a 2/3 pitcher. He's a 4ish ERA guy. A spot that would hopefully be filled by a young guy with potential if possible.

For a rebuilding team, this is a better move than start the clock of someone else.

And if he does well, rebuilds his value, Atl can get a prospect or even keep him next year, yes i know it's unlikely.
 
Pretty tough to disagree with any of that. If one of them were to have been kept, I'd personally have preferred keeping Justin (and it has nothing at all to do with a dislike for Heyward). You KNEW what you had in Justin, and he was "that guy" that you could put behind Freddie so people wouldn't pitch around him. I can also see the argument that trading him was overkill to a point - Fried is an absolute wildcard, and while everybody seemingly loves Peterson, we did have Peraza and Albies on the way. They could have asked for Tony Kemp or Nolan Fontana instead of Thurman in the Gattis deal and gotten another utility guy.

I think a plausible case could have been made for retaining either Heyward or J. Upton. We weren't going to be able to keep both beyond 2015, so trying to get something more than a draft pick was in order. I agree that J. Upton is likely to remain the player he is (and that's pretty good). I guess I prefer Heyward a bit more because of what he may do in the future. I think he has the higher ceiling.
 
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