GDT: 4/7/'15 - Atlanta Braves (Wood) @ Miami Marlins (Latos) 7:35PM EST

gilesfan said:
Why on earth would you not consider McCuthen to be a power hitter? And to a lesser degree Puig/Posey/Lucroy/Gomez
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I think you guys have me all wrong. I do not want just slap hitters in the lineup. I'd love to get another 2-3 guys who could get 30+ doubles in a season.
 
gilesfan said:
The way to score runs is always and will always be getting on base and hitting for power. You can steal all the bases you want, but they make you feel better about the offense moreso than they help you score more runs.

Teams that are good situational hitters are typically teams that aren't good hitters. If you have good hitters, you don't want them giving themselves up. The problem with the Braves offense last year was that they had too many crappy hitters, not that they didn't put the ball in play or were crappy situational hitters.

The worst situational hitting team in the NL last year was the Nationals...who happened to score the 3rd most runs in the NL. The Dodgers were the 5th worse situational hitting team and scored the 3rd most runs.

Runs/Game:

Col 1st in situational hitting

LAD 11th

Wash 15th

Pit 13th

SF 8th

Best situational hitting teams:

Col 1st in runs

Cin 13th in runs

Ari 11th in runs

Mil 6th in runs

SD 15th in runs

NYM 8th in runs
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I would agree. I would add that power does not have to be HRs. Extra base hits are very good.

But if the Braves are thinking of having a team with Peterson in LF, Mallex Smith in CF, Markais, Peraza at 3B, Simmons, that tiny SS prospect at 2B, FF, and CB.......that isn't going to do it.

It's really hard to string together multiple hits in an inning to score all of your runs. If you put out a bunch of singles hitters, that will not score a ton of runs.
 
thethe said:
And what if we compared that list to five years ago? 10 years ago? Would we see a trend in who was considered the "best" players?

I wouldn't consider McCutch/Posey/Lucroy/Puig/Gomez/Heyward "power" hitters.
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Heyward at 9? Not to start that debate but if he's in the top 10 then he'll make more money that even Heyward lovers anticipated in FA.

I think power will always be prized. Even more now because it's more rare. Having a guy with power per his position and being able to play his position is VERY rare now.

I think thethe's point is that you are not seeing a bunch of 30+ homer guys. Several years ago it was multiple guys with 40+ or 50+.

Realistically it would be nice to have 2 guys that you think are guaranteed 25+ homers, hopefully closer to low 30s. You want them to do that while getting on base and being able to field a position.

It would be really nice to have a 30 hr/30 steal guy again. Good Ron Gant would prob be in that top 10.
 
Russ2dollas said:
Heyward at 9? Not to start that debate but if he's in the top 10 then he'll make more money that even Heyward lovers anticipated in FA.

I think power will always be prized. Even more now because it's more rare. Having a guy with power per his position and being able to play his position is VERY rare now.

I think thethe's point is that you are not seeing a bunch of 30+ homer guys. Several years ago it was multiple guys with 40+ or 50+.

Realistically it would be nice to have 2 guys that you think are guaranteed 25+ homers, hopefully closer to low 30s. You want them to do that while getting on base and being able to field a position.

It would be really nice to have a 30 hr/30 steal guy again. Good Ron Gant would prob be in that top 10.
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Thats the thing. The Braves aren't just going to hold up their hands and quit because they don't have a "power" guy. You have to still build a team and building a team with a bunch of contact guys who will see some pitches is a great foundation. Then at some point you make a splash and bring in a guy who adds power to the mix.

I disagree that you can't have a good offense without power. It won't be a great offense but mix that with good pitching and defense and you might have something.
 
gilesfan said:
Why on earth would you not consider McCuthen to be a power hitter? And to a lesser degree Puig/Posey/Lucroy/Gomez
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And all of the players listed have batting averages higher than the league average, but I suppose someone will say batting average still doesn't matter.
 
thethe said:
We all believe what we want to believe. Nobody knows the truth so for you to say the things that are out there are not true is just as much of an opinion as me saying they are.
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Right on the money. As far as I know, none of us regulars have any real ties inside the organization. Its why I can have the opinion the Braves have not said much about Heyward for example. None of us know the whole truth behind the off-season never will.
 
Russ2dollas said:
I would agree. I would add that power does not have to be HRs. Extra base hits are very good.

But if the Braves are thinking of having a team with Peterson in LF, Mallex Smith in CF, Markais, Peraza at 3B, Simmons, that tiny SS prospect at 2B, FF, and CB.......that isn't going to do it.

It's really hard to string together multiple hits in an inning to score all of your runs. If you put out a bunch of singles hitters, that will not score a ton of runs.
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And that's part of the issue. With pitchers performing better, the chances of getting on base, much less stringing 2-3 singles together to score 1 run is tougher.
 
thethe said:
Thats the thing. The Braves aren't just going to hold up their hands and quit because they don't have a "power" guy. You have to still build a team and building a team with a bunch of contact guys who will see some pitches is a great foundation. Then at some point you make a splash and bring in a guy who adds power to the mix.

I disagree that you can't have a good offense without power. It won't be a great offense but mix that with good pitching and defense and you might have something.
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What good offenses don't have power?

No one is saying the Braves are quitting, but this offseason, they've acquired a bunch of guys (not all) that don't have any.
 
50PoundHead said:
And all of the players listed have batting averages higher than the league average, but I suppose someone will say batting average still doesn't matter.
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The batting average doesn't matter stems from the fact you can't tell how good a hitter is just from batting average alone. That's why people say it doesn't matter. But the best hitters in the league generally have non crappy batting averages.
 
50PoundHead said:
And all of the players listed have batting averages higher than the league average, but I suppose someone will say batting average still doesn't matter.
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Well, obviously the best hitters are going to get more hits. But, guys like Encarnacio, Ortiz, Cruz, J-Up are still fantastic hitters.
 
gilesfan said:
What good offenses don't have power?

No one is saying the Braves are quitting, but this offseason, they've acquired a bunch of guys (not all) that don't have any.
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I don't think you can just say because there aren't any good offenses that lack power that you can't create one. It will be limited to its ceiling of course but I'm willing to see this thing through. Ultimately, the goal is going to be to acquire more power becaues unless Ruiz/Davidson make strides its not coming internally.
 
gilesfan said:
Certainly, you can say that.
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Plenty of good offenses prior to the 90's relied on contact players. Did the rules of baseball change? I understand we got smarter about the game but its still a ball thrown at a batter trying to hit it.
 
thethe said:
Plenty of good offenses prior to the 90's relied on contact players. Did the rules of baseball change? I understand we got smarter about the game but its still a ball thrown at a batter trying to hit it.
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Now you are talking about contact hitters? So, what are you saying power hitters or no power hitters? Contact hitters or not contact hitters?
 
thethe said:
There will still be bad nights but overall you know those guys are going to battle. Best part is that this is just year 1 of the shift. In a year from now there are going to be upgrades at several positions.
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And we will still have great pitching.
 
gilesfan said:
Now you are talking about contact hitters? So, what are you saying power hitters or no power hitters? Contact hitters or not contact hitters?
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Yes, they relied on contact hitters without big power guys. Its worked before and it can work again. I'm not looking to construct a lineup of all single/walk hitters. I just don't think we need multiple guys hitting 15-20+ homers.
 
thethe said:
Plenty of good offenses prior to the 90's relied on contact players. Did the rules of baseball change? I understand we got smarter about the game but its still a ball thrown at a batter trying to hit it.
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I guess you could...but it would be really hard. You can't count on stringing together 3+ Hits/walks vs a good pitcher.

You could win a lot of games. IF you have good pitching and Defense you can win with less offense. And you face some bad pitchers during the year. But the problem for Braves fans has not been getting to the playoffs, it's winning series. And vs playoff pitchers, where you are now facing teams' top 1-3, you aren't stringing together 3+ hits/walks in an inning consistently.

You need at least 3,4,5 to be guys capable of doubles and 15+ HR IMO.
 
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