Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Well, i would have liked to extend him but im not sure i'd give him the money he was wanting if its true.
Grade the front office this offseason.
- Thread starter weso1
- Start date
Well, i would have liked to extend him but im not sure i'd give him the money he was wanting if its true.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Blah blah blah, sorry I only glanced at his stats. I'm too busy playing skyrim to pay attention.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Season isn't over. We all know how streaky Heyward (and every hitter in baseball) is. He could easily go on a tear and murder it.
Jason will do just fine this year but Miller for one year of Heyward was an incredible deal.
weso1
<B>Clique Leader</B>
I've been playing that too lately. My character is level 62 with no cheating and there is still a lot of quests to do. Such a huge game.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
As someone who did not like the Heyward-Miller trade, I have to say that it is looking like a clear win for the Braves.
But if my recollection is correct there were many (who liked the trade at the time) who said whatever happened in 2015 was irrelevant in evaluating the trade because the team was too flawed to have a chance in 2015 and that the Miller trade was a good one because we got a player who would be under team control until 2018. Now I don't have a precise recall as to who advanced this argument, but I hope that none of these people would now claim that they were right about the trade based on what has happened so far in 2015.
In general, I would assume that all of those who wanted to punt in 2015 would not feel vindicated because the 2015 team is better, more fun to watch, etc. than expected. I would think those who wanted to punt now in exchange for a presumably much stronger team in 2017 would want to wait and see whether their hopes for 2017 are realized.
But if my recollection is correct there were many (who liked the trade at the time) who said whatever happened in 2015 was irrelevant in evaluating the trade because the team was too flawed to have a chance in 2015 and that the Miller trade was a good one because we got a player who would be under team control until 2018. Now I don't have a precise recall as to who advanced this argument, but I hope that none of these people would now claim that they were right about the trade based on what has happened so far in 2015.
In general, I would assume that all of those who wanted to punt in 2015 would not feel vindicated because the 2015 team is better, more fun to watch, etc. than expected. I would think those who wanted to punt now in exchange for a presumably much stronger team in 2017 would want to wait and see whether their hopes for 2017 are realized.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
I just got it for PC. I've poured hours into it on XBox 360. I went with it on the PC so I could play with the expanded universe that fans created with mods.
Who wanted to punt the season. Some of us were ok if punting facilitated a faster return to world series contender sTatus. Nothing about the success of the team changes the future outlook. To me the success of parts of that future makes the future even more posiTive. The front office has done a spectacular job and with the old scouting guard back in force I'm anticipating a couple of important players will be drafted.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
As I said I don't recall the particular individuals who held the view, but there were those who advanced the argument that the team was too flawed to have a chance in 2015 and that it would be better to trade away guys who had one or two years left so that we would have a better team in 2017.
As for you in particular, I understand that you came to the view that the last few months of last year were so horrible that anything that moved us away from that sort of team would be an improvement. And indeed we have moved away from that type of team and I understand that you are enjoying this year's type of team much more. There is not anything to argue here. As I understand it you like this year's team better on esthetic grounds and arguing over that is like arguing Rembrandt versus Picasso. But I can't help but observe that your proclamations about enjoying this year's team seem to occur much more frequently when the team is winning. So maybe results still carry some weight for you. I suppose you would be happy with a team of George Scotts or David Ortizes if they were playing .600 ball. Not as happy as if a team of Mickey Rivers were playing .600 ball, but you would find the results somewhat offset the esthetics.
Yes, I do enjoy games with deeper counts and guys battling when they are down in the count. I'm just not sure how anything about last year's team comes close to as enjoyable as this years.
But my argument was also to get value for the guys who weren't going to sign here long term and that is what happened.
I don't watch every game but even in the losses the team is more fun to watch. If the starting pitching was as expected we might have won 2-3 more games.
But my argument was also to get value for the guys who weren't going to sign here long term and that is what happened.
I don't watch every game but even in the losses the team is more fun to watch. If the starting pitching was as expected we might have won 2-3 more games.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Well I don't think we disagree much about working the count and so forth. Gregor Blanco is one of my favorite ex-Braves because he brings things besides power to the game that help his team win. But I'm a very bottom line oriented guy and realize that over the history of baseball many different types of teams have had success. There have been great teams built around the three run homer. Others built around defense. Or pitching. Or speed. Or some combination of those things. It is true that every era is different. But even within particular eras you see different styles of teams have success. So I'm not particularly ideological about insisting that a particular approach is more likely to be successful in our era.
Btw, one little-remarked aspect of the players we have now is the number of power arms in the rotation or coming up through the minors. I think that is going to distinguish the Braves the next few years much more than working the count, etc.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Oh one more thing. The only two guys whose approaches I hated last year were BJ and CJ. Not just the results but the whole way they went about what they did. And I felt that we would have a good team this year if we moved one or both of them (or even just giving their at bats to say Todd Cunningham and Phil Gosselin to use a little 20-20 hindsight argument). The front office ended up taking a much different approach that I would have. But I thought just taking away at bats from those two (especially BJ) and taking our chances on guys returning to their 2013 form would give us a highly competitive team in 2015. But yeah the esthetics of that type of team would have been different that the current version. More power for one thing.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Oh more more thing (I lied last time). Our pinch hitting is among the best in baseball this year and was among the worst last year. It is really a random thing, but when guys are coming through in key situations like that it makes it a lot more enjoyable. Gosselin has been great as a pinch hitter. Even EY has done the job as a pinch hitter. Of course, last year Doumit was terrible at it. But I don't really blame him. He's been a good pinch hitter over the years. It is one of those small sample things where a change in luck is very easily confused for a better approach or a better hitting coach. I suppose when our pinch hitters go into a slump we can go back to complaining about the hitting coach. Btw two years ago, Gattis was amazing as a pinch hitter. Made a lot of hard contact and won some games for us.
Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
Pedro Ciriaco has also did well pinch hitting so far with a pinch hit double and triple. So yea our bench has been a big success so far this year. That was true in 2013 too when we won the division but a lot was due to Gattis pinch hitting a lot and hitting a lot of pinch hit homers. We were terrible last season and part of that I thought was how Fredi failed to keep his bench involved. Fredi has did better at that so far this year but I think that is more due to us having a very different team.
Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
It's always more fun when we win, I enjoyed the great pitching and defense last April a lot too personally.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
He might have even worked the count or fouled of some pitches before hitting some of those home runs.
weso1
<B>Clique Leader</B>
That's a good point, but I counter with this. One of the main arguments against the Heyward trade was that it would make us worse this season. Some folks thought we could be competitive this season and getting rid of Heyward significantly dampened our chances of that. But if Miller actually puts up a higher WAR than Heyward this season then it pretty much eliminates that argument. I mean sure you could have argued that we could have done this or that, but that would have to be a bit of a stretch. So point being that while you're right that the posibraves can't use the argument in regards to Miller's productivity this season, the negabraves also can't use the argument that trading Heyward decreased our chances to compete this season. In reality the trade might have actually increased our chances to compete.
Also, Miller's performance this season is an indicator of his future value to us and it's not absurd to think maybe he could be traded. Getting a player that suddenly gains high value could certainly benefit us irregardless of our competitiveness this season.
weso1
<B>Clique Leader</B>
Miller was literally just traded by the Cardinals. Gattis, Kimbrel, Meyers, etc. Not saying it will happen or should happen, but just saying that a player increasing his value is a good thing.