zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
OK and that refutes my point how?
Around Baseball 2015 Edition
- Thread starter NinersSBChamps
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OK and that refutes my point how?
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
He's not good anymore.......
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
So for 3 years he was about a 2 fWAR player per year and was hurt, and he's not good anymore? At 25? You sound like thethe.
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
He's not even remotely close to the same player.....
he's down 40-50 points in average
his OBP went from 370 to 320 - 315 - 301 - 303
his ISO went from 287 to 132 - 142 - 174 - 083
Whether his rookie year was a fluke or all the injuries changed him, he's not close to the same guy and he's not good anymore. Maybe it will change but so far the results in Oakland have been worse. His BABIP is 50-70 points over his norm, so his numbers are going to get even worse.
Again, he's helped that he's above average in the field but he blows at the plate.
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
Again, the drop off in Lawrie is much more dramatic and larger than the one in Heyward. Heyward, while the numbers have dipped, he has been a very good player and way more valuable than Lawrie. Lawrie fell off and has been average at best, or even below average.
It's not similar at all
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
It was acknowledged that he's good defensively. His bat has pretty much stunk since his rookie year. Therefore his bat stinks.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Ok, that's all fine and dandy, but why are we counting this season? And why have you ignored the poitn I made about his production the previous 3 seasons?
At slightly below average offensively and well above average defensively, how does that make him a bad player as was stated in the post I contested the point in? Would you not call a 2 WAR player good?
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
No one cares about that point, everyone knows he was a stud his rookie year. He sucks now
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
He was a solid player for 3 years, though health was a concern.
He sucks this year, but the trade was obviously made before this year.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
you and your semantics. he was good for 43 games and he's another guy that gets a lot of WAR points for his defense. he's not really a starter at this point despite his defense.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
OK and getting WAR from defense is bad? Right around average for his position offensively and above average defensively means what? Again we're ignoring production this year because that's irrelevant to the trade.
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
Stop
His 3 years after his rookie season in wRC+ : 97 / 93 / 101 and this year he is at 85.
The fact that his BABIP is a 100 points higher this year and his numbers still suck is going to be hilarious when the BABIP corrects itself.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Not bad, but probably overvalued. He was below avg. offensively every year except last year when he was at..101.
He can't hit like he did in 2013 and be a starter every year just based on his defense.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Again, for like the 100th time, this year is irrelevant to the trade.
And the average 3B wRC+ in 2012 was 100 in 2013 was 97 and in 2014 was 100. So he was below average 2 years and above average 1. And well above average defensively. In the AL those years it was 97, 98 and 100. So by that. Average, below average, above average. Again, slightly below average offensively, well above defensively. Good player.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
The A's did not acquire Lawrie hoping he'd hit like he did in 2013. They were buying in for the upside that was still there (that may be gone now).
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
I know that's why they acquired him. That's why I compared him to Gattis. But Gattis being lower upside higher productivity.
You guys can be pretty ignorant at times.
The average 3B has hit roughly .260/.319/.400 since 2012 (ignoring Lawries first year) During that time, he's hit .262/.314/.399 with positive base running and good solid defense. He's a prototypical average (to ever so slightly above) 3B with some decent upside at age 25.
The average 3B has hit roughly .260/.319/.400 since 2012 (ignoring Lawries first year) During that time, he's hit .262/.314/.399 with positive base running and good solid defense. He's a prototypical average (to ever so slightly above) 3B with some decent upside at age 25.