Grilli Close To Being Moved???

Status
Not open for further replies.
thethe said:
There are less than 50 guys in A ball that have a ISO greater than 150 and almost all of them are over 18.

For guys 20 and younger Albies is 42nd in all of A-Ball for ISO.

Take out 20 year olds and he is 21. Take out 19 year olds and he is #2.
Click to expand...

Number 2 out of how many? 42nd in all of baseball for a guy you are touting as a top 25 prospect isn't all that impressive.
 
gilesfan said:
Number 2 out of how many? 42nd in all of baseball for a guy you are touting as a top 25 prospect isn't all that impressive.
Click to expand...

Out of qualified players its only 5. But that goes to show how advanced Albies is as 18 year olds who are good enough to play A ball are typically really damn good prospects. Just like Heyward/Freeman were.

The average age this year in A ball is 21.26.
 
smootness said:
Well, the reason for this is fairly obvious. If you are an average defensive catcher who hits 15 HR a year, you are very valuable...more valuable than a 1B with average defense and 15 HR. If you ranked prospects on bat alone, it would be all 1B and LFs.

How did we make the value of Albies vs. Freeman a simple determination of who has more pop in their bat? Because 1B is loaded with bats at the ML level, you have to really rake to have much value there, especially if you don't offer anything else.

Freeman was really good two years ago and has been worth about 2-3 WAR his other years, on pace for about 3.5 WAR this year. He's good to very good and still may improve. But why would anyone think it's crazy for Albies to eventually become that valuable a player at the ML level?

Of course Albies won't hit 20+ HR. If that's your sole determination of a prospect or player, then sure, Albies will never be Freeman.
Click to expand...

The point he made about Altuve is an excellent point.
 
thethe said:
There are less than 50 guys in A ball that have a ISO greater than 150 and almost all of them are over 18.

For guys 20 and younger Albies is 42nd in all of A-Ball for ISO.

Take out 20 year olds and he is 21. Take out 19 year olds and he is #2.
Click to expand...

And? The guys in the top 20 of ISO are most likely the guys that will hit for power in the majors. You think Albies is going to magically get to .150 ISO all the sudden? The fact that there are very few 18 and 19 year olds in A ball does not mean Albies is suddenly going to hit for more power. And your stats have nothing to do with what you quoted from me about Albies and Freeman and the differences between the two. Freeman had an ISO of .206 as a 19 year old in A ball. Heyward had an ISO of .160 in A ball at 19. The good power hitters in the majors generally show good power at the lower levels too.
 
thethe said:
Out of qualified players its only 5. But that goes to show how advanced Albies is as 18 year olds who are good enough to play A ball are typically really damn good prospects. Just like Heyward/Freeman were.

The average age this year in A ball is 21.26.
Click to expand...

I completely understand that. Keep in mind Albies is not doing anything unprecedented. Not too long ago, we had a 17 year old run through Rome at a line of .265/.324/.362 (iso of .097) He is roughly 6-0 195 and has hit for virtually no power in the majors.
 
auyushu said:
And? The guys in the top 20 of ISO are most likely the guys that will hit for power in the majors. You think Albies is going to magically get to .150 ISO all the sudden? The fact that there are very few 18 and 19 year olds in A ball does not mean Albies is suddenly going to hit for more power. And your stats have nothing to do with what you quoted from me about Albies and Freeman and the differences between the two. Freeman had an ISO of .206 as a 19 year old in A ball. Heyward had an ISO of .160 in A ball at 19. The good power hitters in the majors generally show good power at the lower levels too.
Click to expand...

I'm not expecting Albies to be a power hitter at the major league level. But, if he is in the 100-125 ISO range with his skills then he is a borderline top player. The guy is very likely to be a 300 hitter at the big league level and you add in his defense and bsae running then I don't see why its crazy to think he is a better prospect than Freeman was.
 
thethe said:
Altuve was 20 when he got his first taste of A ball.
Click to expand...

The point is unless their is some type of unnatural growth spurt, he's not going to all of a sudden start crushing balls over the fence. His size puts him at a disadvantage.
 
gilesfan said:
Number 2 out of how many? 42nd in all of baseball for a guy you are touting as a top 25 prospect isn't all that impressive.
Click to expand...

He didn't say impressive, he said decent. Again, why the heck are we trying to tie Albies' value to his pop or ISO? That has literally nothing to do with his perceived and potential value.
 
gilesfan said:
I completely understand that. Keep in mind Albies is not doing anything unprecedented. Not too long ago, we had a 17 year old run through Rome at a line of .265/.324/.362 (iso of .097) He is roughly 6-0 195 and has hit for virtually no power in the majors.
Click to expand...

Who are you referring to?

I'm not saying its guaranteed that Ablies is going to hit for power but based on his performance and scouts views (provided by various sources) he is hitting the ball with authority. Its just a matter of how much he is going to fill into his body.
 
gilesfan said:
The point is unless their is some type of unnatural growth spurt, he's not going to all of a sudden start crushing balls over the fence. His size puts him at a disadvantage.
Click to expand...

If you are only using power to evaluate how good a prospect is.
 
smootness said:
He didn't say impressive, he said decent. Again, why the heck are we trying to tie Albies' value to his pop or ISO? That has literally nothing to do with his perceived and potential value.
Click to expand...

Because it's relevant. The other guys brought up examples as to why pop in your bat is important. That's not saying Albies can't be a very good player as a speedster/defensive singles/doubles/triples hitter.
 
Grilli alone isn't going to bring back a prospect good enough to make it worth declaring yourself "sellers" if you still have even an outside chance at the postseason. Grilli is not getting Pentecost from the Jays. He is not getting Guerrero from LA. He is not getting Baez from the Cubs. He is not getting anyone that could realistically contribute to a championship caliber team, so I am against trading him away until the season is very clearly lost...and it isn't...yet.

However, Grilli might be good enough to bring back a talent like Pentecost or Guerrero or Baez if he is paired with some other pieces like AJ, JJ, Uribe and KJ. He might be good enough to make a team take on CJ's contract. I would be all for moves like those once the playoff hopes are clearly dashed, but I would never be OK with trading Grilli (who can contribute in 2016) for some C prospect that will barely make the Braves top 25 prospects list, no matter how bad the team is this year.
 
thethe said:
Who are you referring to?

I'm not saying its guaranteed that Ablies is going to hit for power but based on his performance and scouts views (provided by various sources) he is hitting the ball with authority. Its just a matter of how much he is going to fill into his body.
Click to expand...

Well you are the one that brought up his iso as being decent.
 
gilesfan said:
Because it's relevant. The other guys brought up examples as to why pop in your bat is important. That's not saying Albies can't be a very good player as a speedster/defensive singles/doubles/triples hitter.
Click to expand...

But wouldn't you say when you are determining how good a prospect is that pop is basically all that matters for Freeman while its probably 3rd or 4th on the list for a guy like Albies?
 
Enscheff said:
Grilli alone isn't going to bring back a prospect good enough to make it worth declaring yourself "sellers" if you still have even an outside chance at the postseason. Grilli is not getting Pentecost from the Jays. He is not getting Guerrero from LA. He is not getting Baez from the Cubs. He is not getting anyone that could realistically contribute to a championship caliber team, so I am against trading him away until the season is very clearly lost...and it isn't...yet.

However, Grilli might be good enough to bring back a talent like Pentecost or Guerrero or Baez if he is paired with some other pieces like AJ, JJ, Uribe and KJ. He might be good enough to make a team take on CJ's contract. I would be all for moves like those once the playoff hopes are clearly dashed, but I would never be OK with trading Grilli (who can contribute in 2016) for some C prospect that will barely make the Braves top 25 prospects list, no matter how bad the team is this year.
Click to expand...

For some reason, I really don't want to trade KJ. I hope he is on the team for the next 5 years. I just like him.
 
The fact that a guy OPS'ing at .755 has only been slightly less valuable so far than a guy OPS'ing at .887 does not help prove your point. It helps show why catchers and MIFs are valued as prospects higher than some 1B and OFs with much better bats.

I think it's safe to say those ranking Albies highly think he has a good chance to OPS at higher than .755 with great defense and speed.
 
Auyusha has suggested that it is crazy to say Albies can ever be as good as Freeman, and his only reasoning for this is because Freeman has more pop. That contention is what I take issue with. Freeman was a slightly higher-rated prospect as a 20-year-old than Albies is right now at 18.

But Freeman isn't an elite player. He's a good to very good one. Suggesting Albies can never become a good to very good player is what I find crazy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top