Around Baseball Offseason Thread

Tapate50 said:
It can't be. A good offensive player at an EXTREMELY cheap rate has a ton of value.

I don't get you people. We need offense and the minute we trade for it, everyone is ready to jump off a bridge. Relax... no telling what happens this offseason. I have every reason to believe :Bowman: it will be just as active as last year. Which means not many of these guys may be here next year.
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We need either proven or young bats. Olivera is neither, and we gave up a heck of a lot for him
 
sturg33 said:
We need either proven or young bats. Olivera is neither, and we gave up a heck of a lot for him
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I am on a wait and see approach with this trade. Paco going down makes a hit on this, but lets see how HO responds.
Woods/JJ/Pereza may all be busts, but I too think we could have shopped that package to other teams for a better haul than what we got back from Dodgers. dumping Broson's salary for 2016 was nice (only the 4.5 mill buy out, but still)
 
In a surprising move (to me), the Giants declined Nori Aoki's option yesterday, so he's now a FA. In a market that has a decent supply of OFs, we have have a clear surplus of OFs. In a market that is thin at 3B, we have a clear need at 3B. I hope Coppy can pull a rabbit out of his hat here, but we have not put ourselves in the best position to succeed.
 
dak said:
In a surprising move (to me), the Giants declined Nori Aoki's option yesterday, so he's now a FA. In a market that has a decent supply of OFs, we have have a clear surplus of OFs. In a market that is thin at 3B, we have a clear need at 3B. I hope Coppy can pull a rabbit out of his hat here, but we have not put ourselves in the best position to succeed.
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Had issues with concussion symptoms and may not be cleared yet, I think they were going to accept option if he had been cleared.
 
Tapate50 said:
And those guys are generally not available or a year from FA.....
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We had two in our clubhouse that we shipped away.

Josh Donaldson was traded last offseason.

Everyone is available for a price. We gave up a lot for a guy our FO had a hard on for. It was a dumb move. It doesn't make you a bad fan to admit that
 
sturg33 said:
We had two in our clubhouse that we shipped away.

Josh Donaldson was traded last offseason.

Everyone is available for a price. We gave up a lot for a guy our FO had a hard on for. It was a dumb move. It doesn't make you a bad fan to admit that
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He has a handful of ABs in the majors after a year or two lay off. No one knows what that guy is\isn't yet. For you to already to have decided how debilitating that move is going to be is amazing.

Yes, billy beane can be swindled. No one else, that wasn't a year from FA just like I described above. How would adding a guy with one year from FA help us?
 
Tapate50 said:
He has a handful of ABs in the majors after a year or two lay off. No one knows what that guy is\isn't yet. For you to already to have decided how debilitating that move is going to be is amazing.

Yes, billy beane can be swindled. No one else, that wasn't a year from FA just like I described above. How would adding a guy with one year from FA help us?
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Well... we could always, you know, invest in a player.
 
sturg33 said:
We need either proven or young bats. Olivera is neither, and we gave up a heck of a lot for him
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This.

The thing is, if you are going to trade, then trade for a guy who is good offensively (or at least projects to be which is all Olivera is at this point) AND who has a definitive defensive position with at least some talent there. If you are going to trade for a guy who isn't settled defensively it should be a CF who could play RF or LF or a SS who is athletic enough to play 2B, 3B or an OF position.

Don't get me wrong. I was all for trading Wood AND Peraza but the return was pretty puzzling and even frightening for a Braves fan because it makes you question who is steering the ship through the shoals of a dangerous rebuild that if done right sets the team up for years of success but if done wrong ends up busted and sinking on the rocks.
 
I will never understand the "we need a proven" anything ****. We need players who will perform good, what they did in the past means nothing. Its much better to trade for an unproven player who will hit or pitch well. Proven players take a lot of money and/or trade resources. Smart teams find the good unproven players, bad teams throw money/resources are proven players who probably wont give you as good of performance as they did in the past.
 
cajunrevenge said:
I will never understand the "we need a proven" anything ****. We need players who will perform good, what they did in the past means nothing. Its much better to trade for an unproven player who will hit or pitch well. Proven players take a lot of money and/or trade resources. Smart teams find the good unproven players, bad teams throw money/resources are proven players who probably wont give you as good of performance as they did in the past.
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And how would you describe our move to get Olivera? Who is neither proven, nor young?
 
sturg33 said:
Well... we could always, you know, invest in a player.
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That's not really a point we were discussing, but we can go there if you want.

Now? I don't think that would be a wise move at this point. Do you? There is no way we are good next year or probably the year after. I don't think a big FA is a real good investment. I am probably not alone there.

We have also gone that way... remember Melvin?

And I am not convinced we won't, but it might be til after the Free Agency period and IFA are done to make that assertion though? No? Maybe week 1 is a little soon to be dooming us to no moves or investments. IDK.
 
Tapate50 said:
That's not really a point we were discussing, but we can go there if you want.

Now? I don't think that would be a wise move at this point. Do you? There is no way we are good next year or probably the year after. I don't think a big FA is a real good investment. I am probably not alone there.

We have also gone that way... remember Melvin?

And I am not convinced we won't, but it might be til after the Free Agency period and IFA are done to make that assertion though? No? Maybe week 1 is a little soon to be dooming us to no moves or investments. IDK.
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I agree and disagree. I certainly see NO real positive in signing a FA who won't be around in 4-5 years with at least an outside shot at still being really good, UNLESS you are signing said player as an automatic trade chip for the deadline or next offseason. For an example let's take Zobrist. Signing him would really bring nothing additive to the rebuild UNLESS you are going to use him as a trade piece to acquire talent. But, that would certainly involve risk. You would be signing an aging player who will command significant dollars who might quickly lose his ability or get injured or lose interest (Aramis Ramirez) as they move to retirement which could leave you holding the bag on the contract and not only not supplying the prospects envisioned as the reason for the signing but also unable to better use the monetary assets elsewhere.

To me, to sign Zobrist or Gordon is a move you make if you are trying to win a WS in the next two years, not if you are trying to build a team to do that in 3 or 4 years. Neither is a big enough name to wow a fanbase but both will come at a premium.

However, signing a guy like Price or Greinke, who will wow the fanbase and who will likely still be significant contributors in 4-5 years and who will be strong core pices that will allow you to build around and be attractive to other players when they consider Atlanta makes sense to me.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I agree and disagree. I certainly see NO real positive in signing a FA who won't be around in 4-5 years with at least an outside shot at still being really good, UNLESS you are signing said player as an automatic trade chip for the deadline or next offseason. For an example let's take Zobrist. Signing him would really bring nothing additive to the rebuild UNLESS you are going to use him as a trade piece to acquire talent. But, that would certainly involve risk. You would be signing an aging player who will command significant dollars who might quickly lose his ability or get injured or lose interest (Aramis Ramirez) as they move to retirement which could leave you holding the bag on the contract and not only not supplying the prospects envisioned as the reason for the signing but also unable to better use the monetary assets elsewhere.

To me, to sign Zobrist or Gordon is a move you make if you are trying to win a WS in the next two years, not if you are trying to build a team to do that in 3 or 4 years. Neither is a big enough name to wow a fanbase but both will come at a premium.

However, signing a guy like Price or Greinke, who will wow the fanbase and who will likely still be significant contributors in 4-5 years and who will be strong core pices that will allow you to build around and be attractive to other players when they consider Atlanta makes sense to me.
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Why don't we run out a team of replacement players until this hypothetical golden era in 4-5 years. Bank the payroll saved. Get the high draft picks.
 
nsacpi said:
Why don't we run out a team of replacement players until this hypothetical golden era in 4-5 years. Bank the payroll saved. Get the high draft picks.
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That's what KC did from 2003-2010. You could do that but it is highly inefficient if you are anything but a small market team with extremely limited payroll.

It's about best applying your assets. Part of that is available payroll but also talent. What you don't need is to sign a guy like Gordon today who brings you his typical .270, 18, 85 line with excellent defense for two years while you really have no real shot to win, then have him decline to .250, 10, 50 and diminished defense at a time when your acquired young talent is ready to become a competitive team. Not only do you end up with a drag on payroll just when you are getting good, but you have tied up payroll that could be used in other ways to further the re-build.

The hypothetical golden era doesn't just happen, you have to build it and that starts several years in advance.
 
Wow, here we go. Have always liked Brad Miller. Like this for Rays.

[TW]662446133269159936[/TW]
 
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