Which can be countered that the 3B can get more balls to this right than he normally wouldn't. You see this quite often in the outfield. Having a plus centerfielder generally increases the defensive value of the corner spots.
Is "2017" a huge lie?
- Thread starter CJC
- Start date
Which can be countered that the 3B can get more balls to this right than he normally wouldn't. You see this quite often in the outfield. Having a plus centerfielder generally increases the defensive value of the corner spots.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
Absolutely. So, IMO, when Chris Johnson was the Braves 3B, Simmons was more valuable to the team. Who will be the Braves 3B moving forward? We don't know. But I doubt they will be as bad as Johnson.
IF Chipper was still the Braves 3B and anywhere near his offensive prime, then I think Simmons at short would make perfect sense.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
I'm not arguing against that. I am arguing that defensive value to an extent is relative to the defensive value brought to the team by other players since no single player is on the team at any one time.
If you have a ss with an absolute gun for an arm, very accurate, very quick, his value at cut off is diminished if you have an outfield full of noodle armed statues.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Actually Simmons compensates for outfielders with weak arms. I don't think anyone else goes out further to take the cutoff throw.
Actually I think it would be increased. He could go out farther and help the noodle armers out. Which we have seen with Simmons from time to time. I can see your point. I don't think having multiple good defenders makes any one player a lessor value so to speak. I do think great defenders can make lessor defenders look better though. Andruw did this a lot. Bourne surely increased Prado's value when he was in left. Those are things you to have to look at though. I don't think Josh Donaldson would make Simmons any less valuable though if they were on the same team.
You guys do understand that breaking things down that far is pretty pointless, right?
Simmons is a great defensive player - quite possibly one of the all-time greats. He's now going to have Giovatella playing 2B on one side and potentially Freese playing 3B on the other. He's not going to be cutting Trout's throws off.
Did he help cover up others' flaws here? Sure. Did he cover up $53 million worth of flaws? Apparently not in the organization's eyes.
Simmons is a great defensive player - quite possibly one of the all-time greats. He's now going to have Giovatella playing 2B on one side and potentially Freese playing 3B on the other. He's not going to be cutting Trout's throws off.
Did he help cover up others' flaws here? Sure. Did he cover up $53 million worth of flaws? Apparently not in the organization's eyes.
So are you trying to say the Braves didn't think he was worth 53 million over 5 years?
Who was the GM that gave him the extension?
Apparently Hart and/or Coppy doesn't - and apparently whatever he said convinced the others.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
Some folks really want to have it both ways. The guys we get have to be surefire future studs, and the guys we give up have to be, er, not totally really worth it, y'all.
Metaphysicist
Not Actually Brian Hunter
I have an unnatural love for Rafael Belliard, but this is the dumbest **** I've ever read.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
Not on a cost benefit basis. Neither brought anything much offensively. Both were known for their defense. Simmons is better defensively but also costs more money.
Both were essentially in the lineup for their defense. Simmons is better but costs more.
Just to expand on this a little...
I'm not invited to be part of any of those conversations any more than anyone else here is. However, it simply appears that SOMETHING has happened since the extension was signed to make the current regime alter their view of Andrelton as a cornerstone piece of the next contending team.
I have no idea what that exact thing was. Could it be the lack of offensive improvement thus far? Could it be that they believe that they'll have a 2B and 3B in place when that time comes that will help make up for the difference between Simmons and Albies? Could it be that they REALLY like Newcomb that much? I have absolutely no clue.
That doesn't make Andrelton any less of a player. It also doesn't mean it's a "bad" contract. It simply means that the circumstances have changed since the time it was signed, and "The Plan" is different now - whatever that plan is.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
What would you expect from Aybar and Simmons offensively in 2016.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
Yeah, that guy is a difference-maker.
Well if they truly think that then I question our entire outlook. Hopefully it was just trading the surplus value that he had.
Probably close to what they did in 2015 in which Simmons was slightly the better hitter.
May very well be the case - we all hope anyway.
bravesnumberone
Well-known member
Lol some of you are beyond comprehension. Do you really think Aybar makes that much of an offensive difference over Simmons?
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Our GM seems to.
"You can make an argument that we are actually a team that can win more games with Aybar,” Coppolella said. “Aybar is a career .276 hitter; Simmons has never hit .276 in a full season. Aybar’s a switch-hitter, 18 months back an All-Star, he can hit (first or second in the order) for you. I mean, Aybar’s a really good player. I think we traded defense for offense in this trade."