Miller market 'hot'

[Horsehide Harry]

Hello guys this is my first post i am a huge braves fan since 1991 when i had 8 years old, i been thinking with what teams we can trade and last night came to my mind Colorado. Shelby Miller, Markakis and Vizcaino for Cargo, Ryan Mcmahon and Mike Nikorak. That give to us a batter for 2016 and 2017 and plus a third base for the future and another arm for the future. Cargo become free agent after 2017 and we get a pick when someone sign him. Colorado in other hand get a excellent pitcher that they always need and a closer because i believe Axford is not coming back plus they have a replacement for cargo. Maybe they can give us some money too. I know a lot of people is not going to be happy about Cargo but we need to think about the future plus that extra draft pick that we get if Cargo sign some where else.

All abuse aside (good natured welcome) I think you are on the right track with Colorado but I don't see where Cargo helps the rebuild unless they turn around and move him for more talent. I like Miller for McMahon, Dahl and Nunez and have been pushing that for months...Just ask anyone, they'll tell you...broken record.

 

[Hudson2]

Lol. McMahon and Nikorak are actually very good prospects.

 

[ixiXSolidXixi]

This post is harder to read than your name.. but welcome.. so are you 8, do you have an 8 year old.. do you have 8 one year olds.. have you been thinking about this trade since you were 8...

I need to look at these players to comment without sarcasm..

Thank you but i am 33 years old now.

 

[bravesfanMatt]

Thank you but i am 33 years old now.

ok.. solid. Welcome and look forward to more thoughts from you. Keep a thick skin and you will be fine around here..

 

[bravesfanMatt]

All abuse aside (good natured welcome) I think you are on the right track with Colorado but I don't see where Cargo helps the rebuild unless they turn around and move him for more talent. I like Miller for McMahon, Dahl and Nunez and have been pushing that for months...Just ask anyone, they'll tell you...broken record.

so why is everyone so hyped up on McMahon.. am I missing something. He is at 3rd.. in A+ ball, so he would block Riley. Also, he has 70+ errors in 2 seasons. and he is K% is 27+.. so he hits some homers.. are we that hard up for hitting, that we forget about everything else..

 

[Enscheff]

You don't like the Upton return, yet you think a proper return for getting worse and much more expensive at SP is Hunter Renfroe?

The idea is to take on a "bad" contract in addition to giving up Miller to get 2 long term position player assets. Whether or not those assets include Renfroe is besides the point, the idea is still the same.

And certain "bad" contracts are worse than others. Guys like Castro and Shields have the potential to bounce back and make the contracts look a lot better. Castro is young and talented, while Shields has a long track record of being a much better pitcher than he showed last season.

 

[smootness]

The idea is to take on a "bad" contract in addition to giving up Miller to get 2 long term position player assets. Whether or not those assets include Renfroe is besides the point, the idea is still the same.

And certain "bad" contracts are worse than others. Guys like Castro and Shields have the potential to bounce back and make the contracts look a lot better. Castro is young and talented, while Shields has a long track record of being a much better pitcher than he showed last season.

But Hedges isn't that great a prospect; he's basically a duplicate of Bethancourt. So you're taking on quite a bit of money and giving up Shelby Miller in order to add a decent SP and two decent prospects. I just don't see how that return is any better than the return for one year of Justin Upton, yet you hate the Upton return.

I'll put it this way - I think Fried is better than either Renfroe or Hedges.

 

[Horsehide Harry]

so why is everyone so hyped up on McMahon.. am I missing something. He is at 3rd.. in A+ ball, so he would block Riley. Also, he has 70+ errors in 2 seasons. and he is K% is 27+.. so he hits some homers.. are we that hard up for hitting, that we forget about everything else..

"When building a prototype for a third baseman, the hope is he'll be able to hit for power, if not also for average, and play at least a solid defensive third base. McMahon appears headed toward fitting that description perfectly.

The Rockies feel McMahon will develop into a middle-of-the-order bat, with a smooth left-handed swing. He's already shown an ability to tap into his raw power in game situations, something that's only going to get better with experience. He does need to improve his overall plate discipline, though he's not afraid to take a walk, and he should improve his approach and become an even better overall hitter. Defensively, he has the chance to be as good as the Gold Glover currently in Colorado, Nolan Arrenado, with great hands, a strong throwing arm and outstanding instincts at the hot corner.

McMahon will be just 20 for all of the 2015 season, so time is very much on his side. The more the former high school quarterback plays, the better he seems to fit that third-base profile."

That's the scouting report from MLB. In 2015, he hit for 43 2B and 18 HR which shows plenty of pop for a 3B. He's also listed as the third best 3B prospect in baseball behind Gallo who misses a ton but has 80 power and likely ends up as an OF and Devers who is probably going to eat his way to 1B.

As far as blocking Riley, he also may eat his way to 1B but at this point who cares? You could start 2016 with Ruiz at AA, McMahon at A+ and Riley at A and let it sort itself out. Chances are that by 2017, you will have AT LEAST one serviceable long term core 3B.

 

[bravesfanMatt]

"When building a prototype for a third baseman, the hope is he'll be able to hit for power, if not also for average, and play at least a solid defensive third base. McMahon appears headed toward fitting that description perfectly.

The Rockies feel McMahon will develop into a middle-of-the-order bat, with a smooth left-handed swing. He's already shown an ability to tap into his raw power in game situations, something that's only going to get better with experience. He does need to improve his overall plate discipline, though he's not afraid to take a walk, and he should improve his approach and become an even better overall hitter. Defensively, he has the chance to be as good as the Gold Glover currently in Colorado, Nolan Arrenado, with great hands, a strong throwing arm and outstanding instincts at the hot corner.

McMahon will be just 20 for all of the 2015 season, so time is very much on his side. The more the former high school quarterback plays, the better he seems to fit that third-base profile."

That's the scouting report from MLB. In 2015, he hit for 43 2B and 18 HR which shows plenty of pop for a 3B. He's also listed as the third best 3B prospect in baseball behind Gallo who misses a ton but has 80 power and likely ends up as an OF and Devers who is probably going to eat his way to 1B.

As far as blocking Riley, he also may eat his way to 1B but at this point who cares? You could start 2016 with Ruiz at AA, McMahon at A+ and Riley at A and let it sort itself out. Chances are that by 2017, you will have AT LEAST one serviceable long term core 3B.

I guess his numbers leave some ?? for me. yes, offensively, he has lived up. but over 35 errors per for your first 2 full seasons with a huge K rate is a bit alarming.

 

[gilesfan]

Lets try the whole....trade a hitter for a pitcher back for a hitter routine.

 

[Horsehide Harry]

I guess his numbers leave some ?? for me. yes, offensively, he has lived up. but over 35 errors per for your first 2 full seasons with a huge K rate is a bit alarming.

Yes, but under my scenario you would also get Dahl, a highly thought of although often injured CF, and a blocked but interesting catcher.

OR, you could trade to the Cubs straight up for Soler who also K's a lot, is defensively just "ok" if that and already has a year of service time. Soler is probably the "safer" choice since he is already at the ML level and has at least shown some capability. But, given his ticking clock, and the fact that he is one and not three, might limit the long term usefulness for when the Braves really want to be good.

I think you have to trade for guys who will be ready at the right time (hopefully) and get more quality plus quantity combination than trading for an established or even semi-established singleton who may provide more help short term but would be expensive or gone by the time the rest of the team is ready. I think you want payroll flexibility to go outside the organization, be it FA or trade, and bring the right guy(s) in to finish off the rebuild when it's time. You can't do that if you are struggling to keep together your core (financially) just as the wave of talent arrives.

The other thing to consider: Take Seager as an example. Could he be had today? Unlikely since he has made it to the ML and has shown that he isn't overmatched and the Dodgers have a need. Not impossible but surely so expensive in terms of talent going back to the Dodgers that it might as well be impossible. However, could Seager have been had two years ago for the right package? Almost certainly.

 

[Chico]

I like McMahon, but I Think we should be targeting a ML ready player instead of a prospect.

 

[gilesfan]

I like McMahon, but I Think we should be targeting a ML ready player instead of a prospect.

Why is that?

 

[Enscheff]

Why is that?

So the Braves can win 72 games next year rather than 70.

 

[UNCBlue012]

Rosenthal:

Source: #Rays have indeed talked to #Cubs about Baez, as @TBTimes_Rays reported. TB has both starters and relievers to trade.

 

[UNCBlue012]

Rosenthal:

Source: #Rays have indeed talked to #Cubs about Baez, as @TBTimes_Rays reported. TB has both starters and relievers to trade.

Sources: #DBacks talked Jose with #Marlins. Chance of deal described as “slim.” MIA wanted Corbin+. AZ more likely to trade for lesser SP.

 

[bravesfanMatt]

Yes, but under my scenario you would also get Dahl, a highly thought of although often injured CF, and a blocked but interesting catcher.

OR, you could trade to the Cubs straight up for Soler who also K's a lot, is defensively just "ok" if that and already has a year of service time. Soler is probably the "safer" choice since he is already at the ML level and has at least shown some capability. But, given his ticking clock, and the fact that he is one and not three, might limit the long term usefulness for when the Braves really want to be good.

I think you have to trade for guys who will be ready at the right time (hopefully) and get more quality plus quantity combination than trading for an established or even semi-established singleton who may provide more help short term but would be expensive or gone by the time the rest of the team is ready. I think you want payroll flexibility to go outside the organization, be it FA or trade, and bring the right guy(s) in to finish off the rebuild when it's time. You can't do that if you are struggling to keep together your core (financially) just as the wave of talent arrives.

The other thing to consider: Take Seager as an example. Could he be had today? Unlikely since he has made it to the ML and has shown that he isn't overmatched and the Dodgers have a need. Not impossible but surely so expensive in terms of talent going back to the Dodgers that it might as well be impossible. However, could Seager have been had two years ago for the right package? Almost certainly.

oh, I understand the rest of your pieces.. and I am not afraid of McMahon.. Just seems everyone puts him first on their trade target when it comes to the Rocks.. maybe they don't have much more.. I haven't looked at them much. I am much more incline to your trade or xsisxsisdsfdsomethingsixsi trade idea than Miller for Soler swap. Soler is awesome but there are some ?? that scare me too..

I am starting to think the Braves should be looking at AA and lower highly touted players to target.. much more likely to get those than these AAA + guys that teams are making plans for already..

 

[BRule]

Rosenthal:

Source: #Rays have indeed talked to #Cubs about Baez, as @TBTimes_Rays reported. TB has both starters and relievers to trade.

Sources: #DBacks talked Jose with #Marlins. Chance of deal described as “slim.” MIA wanted Corbin+. AZ more likely to trade for lesser SP.

That's it?

 

[smootness]

That's it?

Haha that was my thought. They want Urias and Seager from the Dodgers, but from the D-Backs, they want a package in which Corbin is the primary piece? That would be extraordinarily dumb since Fernandez is in the exact same contract situation as Corbin and is much, much better.

I would jump all over that if I were the D-Backs, holy cow.

Unless Corbin is just a minor piece in the desired return, not the centerpiece...but in that case, that's a dumb way for Rosenthal to state that.

 

[rico43]

All abuse aside (good natured welcome) I think you are on the right track with Colorado but I don't see where Cargo helps the rebuild unless they turn around and move him for more talent. I like Miller for McMahon, Dahl and Nunez and have been pushing that for months...Just ask anyone, they'll tell you...broken record.

Like the man said in his OP, one-year rentail, guaranteed a draft choice when he goes FA. The more money the Braves take on, the better the prospects will be.