Jecki Lon Memorial Star Wars Thread
- Thread starter zitothebrave
- Start date
Probably learned his lesson from this moment.
Easy. These things were all in Lucas' mind back in the 70's, early 80's. Don't think filmmaking had evolved to allow those types of things to be shown. In Force Awakens Kylo stops a laser in mid air. In Empire, Vader blocked Han's lasers. Again, Lucas has mentioned several times he wanted to have Yoda show lightsaber skills in the OT, but was inhibited by the lack of technology to show it on screen and that Yoda was a puppet. I think he thought of many different things that he wanted to see in his movies. I've always laughed at the technology in the OT being so simple with color coded buttons and no screens, while the prequels had Minority Report technology. But that doesn't detract from my entertainment of the films.
The prequels were mainly to show the fall of Anakin (which they could've done a little better job with, but overall you can see the transition. We're just missing the years from young Anakin in Ep1 to the beginning of his trainings in Ep2), and the politics the Dark Side used to gain power over the Republic. After watching them again and again the last few years, the movies flow better now that I can see the intent of what the director was trying to do.
Oh please, he was laughing when he said it. And he's apologizing now because the politically correct crowd is going to be upset.
He basically said they were making a retro movie, which they did. I enjoyed Force Awakens very much, still doesn't mean I'm going to ignore that Disney and Abrams ripped off several of the same plot elements from older star wars movies and re-hashed them.
And I don't care if you think Star Wars films aren't great besides Empire. A lot of people like Revenge of the Sith the best, and some like A New Hope the best. Stop making it seem like your opinion is the vast majority of Star War's fans because it's not. You hate the prequels we get it. Some actually enjoy it for what it is. And for as much ****ty acting I find in the prequels I can find some equally appalling acting in the OT. There was great acting in the prequels in crucial scenes lost from the bad acting. I don't watch Star Wars movies for acting, I watch them for entertainment and the adventure. And in that matter, all 7 movies have entertained me and told a story. If I want to watch a movie strictly for acting, I can watch any of the Godfather movies all day.
Oh he has such a big ego, that he admittedly changed the plans for Jar Jars character and reduced them after TPM because of fan backlash.
If you watch the interview with Rose, he said he had hired another writer to come help him film Episodes 7-9. He was already starting planning stages of it, but around the same time Eisner at Disney talked with him about Lucas impending retirement and that's when Eisner showed interest in acquiring the franchise.
And just because Lucas didn't direct Empire and ROTJ, doesn't mean he wasn't involved with everything. You can listen to the commentaries and interviews, and Lucas was essentially shadow directing behind the directors during those movies, stepping in.
And Lucas himself has stated he didn't want to do the prequels, he had asked Speilberg, and some of his other friends to direct but they all encouraged him to do it, because it was his creation. And many people love A New Hope, which he was the director to.
The fact of the matter is, he still hasnt' gotten over letting go of his creation. Seems normal to me. He's also Disney's 2nd Biggest Shareholder after Job's estate, so he can really say whatever he wants about Disney. I'm sure if he wanted, he could get people fired at Disney.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
If they were on his mind, why didn't he at least hint at it? Why didn't he reboot the first 3 movies? Why didn't he make the prequels right after the originals? And what you laugh at is called continuity issues. Sure you can explain some stuff away, like you can argue that it's not shocking the rebels had weaker tech than the Republic, given money differences. But why didn't the Empire just have so much money?
Oh please, as if you whiners didn't have enough to complain about. Rebooting the first 3 would officially start a mob to go to his house and lynch him for crimes against humanity.
He said he didn't make the prequels right after the originals because 1) He had young kids who he wanted to be a dad to. By the time the prequels came his oldest kids were already grown and 2) The technology in filmmaking didn't allow him to create these fantasy worlds and the tech scene in the prequels.
You keep blasting him, but you haven't even watched the Charlie Rose interview. He explicitly answers most of your questions, it's a straight 50 minute interview.
He doesn't come off as a pompous ass in the interview if you actually watch it for the duration of it's entirety. He just comes off as a guy that gave away his kids up for adoption, but regrets it and at the same time knows he has to try to move on. I don't see a bitter Lucas in the interview when he talks about selling it, I see a Lucas that has some regrets and still feels he could of and should of done more.
Show me a perfect series of movies that doesn't have continuity issues, or plotholes. I love Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy but it's just full of plotholes and continuity errors. THe prequels came almost 20 years after ROTJ.
Frankly in Return of the Jedi the idea of Ewoks defeating Stormtroopers was a joke, that's one of the movies you say "Lucas was on the sidelines".
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
He was laughing when he said it because he's an idiot. And it's not the PC crowd, it's the everyone crowd. Cause he was being an absolute idiot.
He said "I think the fans are going to love it. It’s very much the kind of movie they’ve been looking for." That's salty as ****. Basically implying that his movies were above the bulk of his fanbase. As the bulk of his fanbase loved this movie.
I know personally no one who likes Revenge of the Sith the best. I know someone who likes it second most. But the consensus is Empire is the best. This is based off of numerous polls and taken after many viewings. Revenge is clearly the best film of the original trilogy, it's the only one I'll actually watch. BUT it's not close to Empire. IIt's not about acting, Prequels had a much better stable of better actors. Liam Neeson, Ewan McGregor, Natalie Portman, Christopher Lee, etc. The failures of the prequels was direction and screenwriting. Great actors can't overcome terrible direction and screenwriting.
He has a massive ego. Just because he made a sound business move of changing the role of one of the most panned characters in film history, doesn't mean anything. He could have just killed Jar Jar off or just left him out of the next 2 movies.
Lucas was very hands off in Empire. He had the general story, but he was not writing the script and didn't direct. Of course he was involved as well. Would be silly to imply otherwise. But again, Lucas considers Empire the worst Star Wars movie, something that I know no one else who agrees with.
Who cares if he approached certain directors. Someone would have taken it. See how others were really interested in the sequels.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Maybe it would have, but it would have allowed for a better continuity of technology.
He can say what he wants. I respect his desire to take care of his kids. I don't respect the idea of waiting for technology to improve. If that was the big concern why not stop making movies after the original and just wait for technology to catch up like Cameron did for Avatar? It doesn't make remote sense as an argument because it's a bad one.
I've watched much of his interview. He was Salty. He's been Salty for a long time. The Fan Reaction to the prequels started his slip.
I never discussed plotholes. Because there isn't a movie that doesen't have plotholes. I'm talking about major continuity issues. Why is tech so far ahead? Why are old people so much more athletic? I can point to a number of things. There were literally tons of continuity error.s There were feew to none in Nolan's Batman trilogies. Aside from standard movie continuity issues, and the switch of actresses for Rachel Dawes, there's not much. I'd like to see your list though sine you brought it up.
And I agree that the Ewoks sucked. But the Ewoks were one of Lucas's beautiful things.
http://entertainment.time.com/2013/...ucas-should-have-quit-after-jedi/slide/ewoks/
Or to save you from clicking
"Originally, Lucas was to have staged the crucial land battle in Jedi on a planet of Wookiees. Imagine a whole world of giant, hairy, badass Chewbaccas ripping the arms off of imperial stormtroopers – how cool would that have been? (Judging by the brief Wookiee battle scene that Lucas finally got to stage in 2005’s Star Wars: Episode III – Revenge of the Sith, pretty damn cool.) Instead, Lucas essentially shrank the furry warriors down to teddy-bear size, switched around the syllables in their name, and gave us a race of cuddly, adorable, tribal woodland folk who were, improbably, able to defeat an imperial army with rocks and giant logs."
And another one
http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayl...of-the-jedi-ruined-star-wars-forever-20130524
I just think Lucas is a bit tone deaf. Considering he was born in the early '40s and grew up on entertainment from the early-mid 20th century. A time that was in fact pretty racist, and ethnic minorities being depicted as caricatures was commonplace. Lucas, like all of us, was obviously shaped by the sociopolitical climate he grew up in and I think never questioned some of this stuff because, from his perspective living in the middle of it, it was just the way things were. He then carried this influence with him later in life.
As for egos, anyone who's as successful in the industry as Lucas has been in his career has an ego. Even Spielberg, Coppola, etc. Hell even modern directors like Tarantino, Nolan, Singer have huge egos. Michael Bay, David O. Russell, Innaritu, have all said to have HUGE ego's and gotten into it with actors on set.
Your hate for Lucas in particular is kind of disturbing. You're holding him to a different standard, for essentially "destroying" something you liked as a fan, even if they were all his creations. Fans that hate the prequels like you telling him how to do his ****, is hilarious.
This is not the same as Michael Bay destroying Transformers.
Lucas gets hate from fans for essentially doing whatever he creatively wanted to do with a universe and characters he created in his head.
Michael Bay didn't create the characters or Transformers, he's just giving us his interpretation which after the first movie has been terrible.
You have all these what if and why questions, where Lucas has already answered his rhyme or reason. He specifically states why he did this and that, even if you don't believe him or think it's a stupid decision.
He owned Industrial Light & Magic whom were doing amazing practical effects for a lot of the best 80's movies. He had a frontline view of what filmmaking technology looked like. His decision to wait was for his kids, and because he knew technology was improving. He says he likes to take risks with movies, can you blame him for that? Well you can, because you hate the guy's guts.
I don't care about the Ewoks. I think it was funny they beat the Stormtroopers, but you claiming Lucas was pushed back in Empire and ROTJ proves otherwise considering the Ewoks were his doing. I still will watch ROTJ without thinking badly of the Ewoks. It's part of the movie.
You know zeets, your complaint about technology in Star Wars being a major continuity issue, why haven't you used your own imagination since you clearly know the Star Wars universe better than the creator himself.
I can speculate that the advanced technology in the prequels was from Alien species that were part of the Republic. Humans didn't know how to create the advanced technology, they only knew how to use it. When the Empire took over, you can notice pretty much all of the Empire are humans. The Governors, the Commanders, etc. The Empire is said to have destroyed a lot of the Republic's history. It's also possible they wiped out a lot of the alien rebellion from the old Republic.
The real reasons for the continuity that you care so much about, is filmmaking technology improved, so Lucas could finally do what he wanted.
Why you care so much about that blows my mind.
I can speculate that the advanced technology in the prequels was from Alien species that were part of the Republic. Humans didn't know how to create the advanced technology, they only knew how to use it. When the Empire took over, you can notice pretty much all of the Empire are humans. The Governors, the Commanders, etc. The Empire is said to have destroyed a lot of the Republic's history. It's also possible they wiped out a lot of the alien rebellion from the old Republic.
The real reasons for the continuity that you care so much about, is filmmaking technology improved, so Lucas could finally do what he wanted.
Why you care so much about that blows my mind.
This is Lucas' red carpet interview at the China premiere
You can see he hates doing those types of interviews just from who he is, similar to Harrison Ford getting tired of answering who shot first. Then he and his friend have a friendly jab at the end.
Lucas' movies have entertained me. Fairly simple. I'm not attached to the "original" like you, and I love his world of Star Wars. Without him we wouldn't even be arguing this. You can whine all day about how much of an ego he has, or how much he doesn't care about fans yadda yadda. At the end of the day he wanted to make his movies. He financed Red Tails himself despite that being a box office failure. He's taken risks, and Force Awakens wasn't. I've watched Awakens roughly 5 times in theaters now. No risks, just fun recycled stuff that I enjoyed.
Lucas hated the fans so much, he supported the EU (even though he never read any of the EU), before Disney considered it non-canon.
You can see he hates doing those types of interviews just from who he is, similar to Harrison Ford getting tired of answering who shot first. Then he and his friend have a friendly jab at the end.
Lucas' movies have entertained me. Fairly simple. I'm not attached to the "original" like you, and I love his world of Star Wars. Without him we wouldn't even be arguing this. You can whine all day about how much of an ego he has, or how much he doesn't care about fans yadda yadda. At the end of the day he wanted to make his movies. He financed Red Tails himself despite that being a box office failure. He's taken risks, and Force Awakens wasn't. I've watched Awakens roughly 5 times in theaters now. No risks, just fun recycled stuff that I enjoyed.
Lucas hated the fans so much, he supported the EU (even though he never read any of the EU), before Disney considered it non-canon.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
I was born about a decade later than Lucas, but I was just remarking to a friend the other day how we grew up in an era of very casual racism and, as a result, we don't truly understand how even relatively innocuous depictions based solely on racial characteristics can be objectionable.
Given my previous inability to discern plot points in the previous Star Wars' movies, I'm hardly an expert on the whole thing, but I think Lucas got a bad case of "merchanditis" with the whole Ewok thing. I always thought the last of the first three (Episode VI) and Episode I were really juvenile.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Comparing Bay to Lucas?
And if you dare compare him to Tarantino who's not a great director but a fantastic screenwriter, I'll laugh so much harder.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
I care because it doesn't make sense.
As far as the Alien aspect, that's not likely. They wouldn't have lost the technology that was in play already. I think there would have been a way to handle it, and maybe before Rebels is over they'll handle it. BUT again, why even do it in the first place? Why not keep tech simpler? THey succeeded in some things. For example the ARC-170 being the predecessor X-Wing was great. It was moderately tech advanced but required multiple pilots. And simplifying it to the eventual X-Wing because it requires a single fighter.
But then you have the droids. If most droids were the classic battle droid, that's one thing. Btu adding in more mobile droids and so on so forth you're creating a big issue. Why did the Empire have none of them?
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
That is basically what most say happened. Lucas wanted more money. And the Ewoks had all kinds of TV shows, specials, and cartoons, stuffed toys, etc. The best concept for sure would have been to have wookies. They wanted to do lizard like people originally. Han Solo was supposed to die in a blaze of glory but according to Harrison Ford "Han Solo doesn't sell many toys dead" Lucas took the edge that showed up in Empire and blew it up for Jedi.
You guys are arguing about continuity errors? This is why I hate "lore." Errors are are inevitable if you look hard enough at a series like this.. and you end up having to invent a convoluted back story to explain everything ("You lose your force abilities if you don't use them over time! There is always balance when the light and dark sides fight!" I mean, think about it. These are ridiculous statements). I think what is important is the general sense of feeling the movies give you. And for me, TFA nailed that.
That said, the prequels were garbage. The story may have been good but it's impossible to say because it was impossible to follow. The screenwriting was horrible. And the acting is honestly embarrassing.. I can't remember even seeing a movie short of The Room that had a line this poorly delivered:
That said, the prequels were garbage. The story may have been good but it's impossible to say because it was impossible to follow. The screenwriting was horrible. And the acting is honestly embarrassing.. I can't remember even seeing a movie short of The Room that had a line this poorly delivered:
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Keep in mind. When I say continuity errors. I mean things as I discussed which were gravely different from the originals and the prequels. Technology, old people athletics, etc. And I mean to add another thing, R2D2 in the prequels had rocket boosters. But didn't think to use them in the OT? Why were they necessary to add on in the prequels? And don't say for the love of god don't say the technology because we had a jetpack on Boba Fett in the OT. Hwo come Leia was able to remember her mother?
This one I'm stealing from what Culture. But what about all these things involving Obi-Wan
Why didn’t he remember R2 and 3PO?
Why did he say Anakin wanted Luke to have his lightsaber when another lie would have been more efficient?
Why did he say Owen didn’t want Luke to follow him as Anakin had? Anakin didn’t follow Obi-Wan and Owen hardly knew his (step) brother.
Why did he say Yoda trained him? And the quick solution of Yoda training younglings in AOTC doesn’t count.
Why did he call Vader a ceremonial name, Darth, in their confrontation? Throughout the originals it was assumed Darth Vader was an actual name Anakin had adopted, but Obi-Wan knew it was a title used by all Sith.
That's my issue with the continuity. It's not silly things like jacket on, then off, then on. THat happens in all movies. It's not simple plot holes or conveniences, they also happen in movies. It's when he takes something he said in one film, then massively changes them in another. That's my issue.
And you're spot on, the direction and writing were absolutely terrible.
I mean here's some winners
“I’m haunted by the kiss that you should never have given me.”
“I don’t care what universe you’re from, that’s got to hurt!”
“I have the POWER! UNLIMITED… POWER!”
“So this is how liberty dies… with thunderous applause.”
“Always two there are, no more, no less.”
Also to add to this last one. Sidious had an apprentice (maul) when he was Plagueis's apprentice. And Dooku had an Apprentice (Ventrice) when he was Sidious's Apprentice. Now they discussed the issue with Ventrice, where she never completed her training, but it's important to add, he still was training her. Not to mention. He had to know the risk of Luke killing him with this statement. And if this was the truth, and Vader wanted Luke to join the dark side why didn't he let him strike the Emperor down? Why didn't he just let him do that then he'd be the master and Luke the apprentice. It created issues when he made the Sith Rule of Two.
“He owes me what you’d call a ‘life-debt.’ Your gods demand that his life belongs to me.”
“I thought we had decided not to fall in love. That we’d be forced to live a lie and that it would destroy our lives.”
“Now that I’m with you again, I’m in agony. My heart is beating, hoping that that kiss will not become a scar.”
Not to mention midichlorians. What a bunch of **** that is. As someone called it, that's making something up to remove mysticism by adding a different mysticism to it.
This one I'm stealing from what Culture. But what about all these things involving Obi-Wan
Why didn’t he remember R2 and 3PO?
Why did he say Anakin wanted Luke to have his lightsaber when another lie would have been more efficient?
Why did he say Owen didn’t want Luke to follow him as Anakin had? Anakin didn’t follow Obi-Wan and Owen hardly knew his (step) brother.
Why did he say Yoda trained him? And the quick solution of Yoda training younglings in AOTC doesn’t count.
Why did he call Vader a ceremonial name, Darth, in their confrontation? Throughout the originals it was assumed Darth Vader was an actual name Anakin had adopted, but Obi-Wan knew it was a title used by all Sith.
That's my issue with the continuity. It's not silly things like jacket on, then off, then on. THat happens in all movies. It's not simple plot holes or conveniences, they also happen in movies. It's when he takes something he said in one film, then massively changes them in another. That's my issue.
And you're spot on, the direction and writing were absolutely terrible.
I mean here's some winners
“I’m haunted by the kiss that you should never have given me.”
“I don’t care what universe you’re from, that’s got to hurt!”
“I have the POWER! UNLIMITED… POWER!”
“So this is how liberty dies… with thunderous applause.”
“Always two there are, no more, no less.”
Also to add to this last one. Sidious had an apprentice (maul) when he was Plagueis's apprentice. And Dooku had an Apprentice (Ventrice) when he was Sidious's Apprentice. Now they discussed the issue with Ventrice, where she never completed her training, but it's important to add, he still was training her. Not to mention. He had to know the risk of Luke killing him with this statement. And if this was the truth, and Vader wanted Luke to join the dark side why didn't he let him strike the Emperor down? Why didn't he just let him do that then he'd be the master and Luke the apprentice. It created issues when he made the Sith Rule of Two.
“He owes me what you’d call a ‘life-debt.’ Your gods demand that his life belongs to me.”
“I thought we had decided not to fall in love. That we’d be forced to live a lie and that it would destroy our lives.”
“Now that I’m with you again, I’m in agony. My heart is beating, hoping that that kiss will not become a scar.”
Not to mention midichlorians. What a bunch of **** that is. As someone called it, that's making something up to remove mysticism by adding a different mysticism to it.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
TFA has become the second highest domestic film of all time. It's going to smoke Avatar domestically. Only question will be globally can it overcome Avatar, and Globally can it overcome Gone With the Wind when adjusted for inflation.
Doubt it passes Avatar globally. But considering the movie going habits of even 5 years ago and especially 15+ years ago of the 90's I doubt any movie anytime soon comes close to what TFA is doing right now. It's going to sell more tickets than any movie since Titanic and be the #2 ticket seller of any movie since 1982's ET. Which is astounding since movies just don't sell that many tickets anymore compared to past eras.
Because of price obviously.
Its impossible to know how many individual people have seen it since people have gone 3-4 timed already.
Also wonder how much the Imax and 3d prices did to inflate force awakens box.