2016 Presidential Primaries [ SUPER TUESDAY | 3-1-'16]

[50PoundHead]

I think anyone here knows that. But it still doesn't discount their admiration in the tea party.

Are you just still mad that Ron Paul was also a Tea Party favorite, but Tea Party nowadays seem to love neocons more?

Rubio never really sidled up to the Tea Party (at least from my vantage point, which admittedly is a long ways from Florida). I think it was an instance of "mutual use," where Rubio ran as somewhat of an outsider against consummate insider Charlie Crist. Rubio strikes me as a bit of an empty vessel. His demeanor, if not his views, seem to tend toward the "reformacon" wing of the current Republican establishment.

I always thought the Tea Party got its kick-off when the Wall Street reporter went off about the bank bailouts on national television.

The Pauls, while obviously sharing the same viewpoint as a lot of Tea Party members, always have struck me as more principled. From what I gather, a lot of older Tea Party members don't want to touch Social Security or Medicare and want to build up defense without raising taxes. Do the math on that one.

 

[sturg33]

Rubio never really sidled up to the Tea Party (at least from my vantage point, which admittedly is a long ways from Florida). I think it was an instance of "mutual use," where Rubio ran as somewhat of an outsider against consummate insider Charlie Crist. Rubio strikes me as a bit of an empty vessel. His demeanor, if not his views, seem to tend toward the "reformacon" wing of the current Republican establishment.

I always thought the Tea Party got its kick-off when the Wall Street reporter went off about the bank bailouts on national television.

The Pauls, while obviously sharing the same viewpoint as a lot of Tea Party members, always have struck me as more principled. From what I gather, a lot of older Tea Party members don't want to touch Social Security or Medicare and want to build up defense without raising taxes. Do the math on that one.

The modern day Republicans are all about cutting "waste"... which, while valid, is a drop in the bucket. Nobody wants to touch the problems, which are social security, medicare, medicaid, and defense.

If you do, you're done

 

[Julio3000]

Rubio never really sidled up to the Tea Party (at least from my vantage point, which admittedly is a long ways from Florida). I think it was an instance of "mutual use," where Rubio ran as somewhat of an outsider against consummate insider Charlie Crist. Rubio strikes me as a bit of an empty vessel. His demeanor, if not his views, seem to tend toward the "reformacon" wing of the current Republican establishment.

I always thought the Tea Party got its kick-off when the Wall Street reporter went off about the bank bailouts on national television.

The Pauls, while obviously sharing the same viewpoint as a lot of Tea Party members, always have struck me as more principled. From what I gather, a lot of older Tea Party members don't want to touch Social Security or Medicare and want to build up defense without raising taxes. Do the math on that one.

Yikes, though. Here's the funny thing about the CNBC (?) guy's rant: it wasn't about bank bailouts. It was about gummint responsibility for the housing meltdown and assistance programs for homeowners. It was about bailing out the losers—the individuals, not the banks. Ignoring the fact that those loans would never have been granted if some ****heads hadn't figured out a way to commoditize and securitize them and muscle the rating agencies into rating them AAA. But this prick's rant was basically blaming the victim . . . which kinda, IMO, encapsulates the Tea Party as a whole.

 

[50PoundHead]

Yikes, though. Here's the funny thing about the CNBC (?) guy's rant: it wasn't about bank bailouts. It was about gummint responsibility for the housing meltdown and assistance programs for homeowners. It was about bailing out the losers—the individuals, not the banks. Ignoring the fact that those loans would never have been granted if some ****heads hadn't figured out a way to commoditize and securitize them and muscle the rating agencies into rating them AAA. But this prick's rant was basically blaming the victim . . . which kinda, IMO, encapsulates the Tea Party as a whole.

I just remember it was a financial channel guy ranting about something. Couldn't remember the exact details.

 

[bravesnumberone]

Sanders and Clinton go at it head to head tonight for the first time, at least without O'Malley there.

It's time for Sanders to hit her hard on the debacle of an answer she gave on Goldman Sachs last night.

 

[BedellBrave]

no, that was not what I said.

Even so, even if I did voice that as fact it still does not qualify as infanticide.

I said he comes across as a little prick. Never met the man but I do understand how voters wouldn't connect

You did say it and it is infanticide.

 

[BedellBrave]

I think everyone outside of Cruz, Trump, Santorum and, if you don't like his philosophy, Bernie, are "sane," but just about all of them are wrong on multiple fronts.

I'd say they are all wrong on one front or another. And I recognize according to my own definition of "right" and "wrong."

 

[sturg33]

 

[BedellBrave]

It still boggles my mind that Rubio is somehow seen as the "moderate" of Cruz and Trump, when he was the Son of the Tea Party.

Being slightly less crazy than Cruz still makes you insane.

There isn't an agreed upon definition of sanity here. But I know it's fun calling the guys and gals across the aisle "insane."

 

[BedellBrave]

My one-and-a-half cents.

1. Rubio is the big winner on the Republican side in Iowa because he looks to be firming up his position as the establishment alternative to Trump and Cruz. Impressive late surge.

2. Trump's campaign is truly led by idiots. Iowa is the home of retail politics and delegates/caucus attendees need to be coddled and met personally. That doesn't happen at big rallies. Trump led among first-time caucus attendees, but if he would have had any ground game to follow up on those attending his rallies and making sure they went to their caucuses, he likely would have won. His reaction after the results is typical Trump and his handlers (if he can be handled) have is bass ackwards. Trump should be saying "Cruz had the big hitters and visited every country and he still only beat me by three points."

3. Curious to see how Cruz fares from this point forward. It's been shown success in Iowa doesn't necessarily translate to anything else, but he absolutely had to win in Iowa and his ground game and his support from King and Vander Plaats were key in that. Still, he didn't reach 30%. Huckabee was well over 30% in 2008 (Fred Thompson actually beat McCain in Iowa in 2008 as a reference point). Carson still being in the race clearly detracted from Cruz, but Perry and Gingrich being in the race in 2012 put a dent into Santorum. Puzzler to me is the evaporation of the libertarian wing in Iowa, as Ron Paul got 21% in 2012. Maybe Trump is reaping that demographic, which is a bit of a puzzler.

Good analysis.

 

[sturg33]

My definition of insanity is anyone who doesn't have a real plan to reducing our debt burden, and anyone who wants to double down on failed foreign policies... so as far as I can tell, everyone's insane up there

 

[BedellBrave]

I guess the mainstream cred for Rubio has its roots in the immigration reform issue. Still, he's pretty much indistinguishable from Cruz in policy. Tone and demeanor are the biggest differences.

I heard the aforementioned Hugh Hewitt interview interview Christie the other day, and Christie's take on Rubio is pretty withering—and, IMO, pretty accurate. He said, basically, I like Marco, but he's been giving the same speech for five years. He never does press gaggles, he's never really been tested. Step out of the bubble. That's going to be the line for the time being.

I've been waiting for Rubio to impress me. I haven't seen much of it. He's got a good biography, but right now he's all biography. I wonder if he would be compromised by how hard he's had to run against his own immigration position in the primary, a la Romney on healthcare in 2012.

I hope that at least one of the governors steps out. To me, they're the more preferable option.

And that biography is going to be in the bullseye too. He better be ready and like Christie says be ready to step out of the bubble. I'm hoping he will, but he is a R and my confidence in them is waning.

 

[BedellBrave]

what is even more mind boggling is his being annointed the winner in Iowa.

He was

predicted to finish third

finished third- with roughly the predicted %

proclaimed winner

by the same media outlets that predicted he would come in third

wow

..

third is the new first ?

I think the predicted was more of what he was polling - 14-18%. Late surge was real. No need to be dismissive of it.

 

[BedellBrave]

From Wikipedia

Commentaries on origin

Fox News Channel commentator Juan Williams has said that the Tea Party movement emerged from the "ashes" of Ron Paul's 2008 presidential primary campaign.[80] Indeed, Ron Paul has stated that its origin was, on December 16, 2007, when supporters held a 24-hour record breaking, "moneybomb" fundraising event on the Boston Tea Party's 234th anniversary,[81] but that others, including Republicans, took over and changed some of the movement's core beliefs.[82][83] Writing for Slate.com, Dave Weigel has argued in concurrence that, in his view, the "first modern Tea Party events occurred in December 2007, long before Barack Obama took office, and they were organized by supporters of Rep. Ron Paul," with the movement expanding and gaining prominence in 2009.[65] Barack Obama, the first African American President of the United States, took office in January 2009. Journalist Joshua Green has stated in The Atlantic that while Ron Paul is not the Tea Party's founder, or its culturally resonant figure, he has become the "intellectual godfather" of the movement since many now agree with his long-held beliefs.[84]

Congressman Ron Paul was appointed as the first chairman of the organization.

sturg, for some, it just means "dumb hicks."

 

[The Tariff King]

Lindsey Graham is on CNN right now. She just said Cruz is the same as Ron Paul and that Cruz's foreign policy is the same as Ron Paul's. She just suggested he's an isolationist.

WHAT

 

[zitothebrave]

So poll came out yesterday on Nomination and it's pretty much what you'd expect. From PPP for the Rs you have Trump 25, Cruz 21, Rubio 21, Carson 11.

WMUR poll for NH released today has Trump losing a lot of ground but still far in the lead in NH But the "shock" (meaning for everyone but me who called this a month or so ago) was Rubio kicking. He's at 18 which is taking votes from Trump, but also Bush .

Same poll is brutal for Hillary. 61-30. She needs to get out of New Hampshire and start getting votes in Nevada and South Carolina. She needs to bury Sanders early. If he hangs around too long he could make things interesting.

 

[bravesnumberone]

If Trump loses New Hampshire, he's in deep trouble IMO. It will snowball in a hurry. He's had a huge lead there for a long time.

 

[zitothebrave]

If Trump loses New Hampshire, he's in deep trouble IMO. It will snowball in a hurry. He's had a huge lead there for a long time.

Oh yeah. If he loses NH I think he's done. I mean I don't think he'll drop out, but I think his chance will die.

 

[BedellBrave]

Lindsey Graham is on CNN right now. She just said Cruz is the same as Ron Paul and that Cruz's foreign policy is the same as Ron Paul's. She just suggested he's an isolationist.

WHAT

Senator Graham? If so, I see what you did there.

Cruz actually made a bit of a pivot that way, at least in what he is saying. His carpet-bombing comment was actually in opposition to a "boots on the ground" approach.

 

[BedellBrave]

So poll came out yesterday on Nomination and it's pretty much what you'd expect. From PPP for the Rs you have Trump 25, Cruz 21, Rubio 21, Carson 11.

WMUR poll for NH released today has Trump losing a lot of ground but still far in the lead in NH But the "shock" (meaning for everyone but me who called this a month or so ago) was Rubio kicking. He's at 18 which is taking votes from Trump, but also Bush .

Same poll is brutal for Hillary. 61-30. She needs to get out of New Hampshire and start getting votes in Nevada and South Carolina. She needs to bury Sanders early. If he hangs around too long he could make things interesting.

If she needs a firewall, it's the black vote in Southern states.