SCOTUS

[The Tariff King]

The issue with raising taxes is you are raising the price of something, somewhere. Direct or indirect. If you raise income taxes, then the cost of labor goes up, more labor goes underground/overseas, etc. Raise it on the poor, then the cost of American goods increases and struggle even more to compete with foreign imports. Raise taxes on the wealthy, then we see less investment in the US. Raise taxes on corporations, companies migrate their IP to foreign jurisdictions like the UK, Singapore, Ireland, and the Caymans so they can "legally" allocate profits out of the US.

France, for example, was forced to repeal their 75% "super tax" on millionaires because thousands of wealthy Frenchmen were leaving the country. Money always goes to where it's best treated.

Now, you can say that median income will shift and nominal prices of goods will probably drop, which is true. But the economy is going to produce less of something. That's the trade off.

Yes but if you're wealthy in France you're restricted comparably the size of Texas to move to. Unless you move to Switzerland or Monaco.

If you're wealthy in the US, you have tons of options around the country to live. Live in the South during the winter, anywhere north in the summer. I don't see any reason someone like Romney, Trump, Buffet, Cuban would renounce their citizenship unless their tax rate went up to 80-90% and even then, where else would you want to live when you're so used to the United States culturally. I think it's a bigger culture shock for a long time wealthy American entrepreneur to move everything to another country, than someone from France having to assimilate here.

Speaking anecdotally, I know someone personally whose father sold his company big in France and moved to New York and now runs an investment startup in NYC. I asked him about the French Tax thing on super rich and he told me from his father's perspective it was moreso the chance to live in New York and the USA rather than paying higher taxes in France. They wanted to live in America after visiting many times on business and now they are.

I don't buy the idea that you lose investment, you only lose investment from the same players. It would encourage those trying to move up to take risks and invest instead of the same players at the top controlling everything. Also, I think it would also prevent more companies from merging or buying out other companies which further cuts more jobs. For every merger between two Fortune 500 companies, you're gonna lose thousands of jobs to replace while the surviving will take on 50% of a workload at roughly the same pay.

I also don't buy that the economy will produce less, simply because in the next 15-20 years robots and automation will have replaced a lot more jobs which will lead us into another crisis. I give credit to Obama for at least trying to lead us in that direction. Nobody will admit that automation is going to further cut jobs, but it's a reality we're going to see soon. I mean in our lifetime we'll see automated Uber/Taxis. Forget automated manufacturing because that's almost here.

And for the record I wouldn't be in favor of anything over 50% tax even for the wealthy. 45% I'm reluctant to go to. 50% is where I draw the line. So no I wouldn't want to go back to post-depression 80-90% tax brackets.

 

[goldfly]

I didn't articulate my thoughts well earlier. My hope is that Obama nominates a true constitutional judge and that the republicans consider that person

What does that have to do with what we were talking about?

 

[goldfly]

Again, income taxes have only been around for 100 years... and yet we managed to have roads, bridges, and military before then.

The good old days of 1900. Yeah, let's go back to that

 

[goldfly]

Let's take Bernie's plan.

Bernie wants to provide "free" education to everyone.

Bernie takes office, and gets it done.

I am then taxed a higher rate to pay for these young-ins. I didn't vote for Bernie. I didn't vote for the congress who approved. And there's no where that I can see in the constitution that education is an issue that the federal government should be getting involved in.

Tell me how that is different than me stealing a rich dude's wallet, then giving the money to a poor kid to go to college. Other than one is "legal" and the other isn't

"Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society"

That you try to equate those 2 as similar is like watching a freshman in poli sci 1101 class try to make a name for himself in the class the first day

 

[goldfly]

Here is Bernie offering some support for some 90+% tax rates... the absurd - as you call it

Yeah, that was 1974... but how about this year?

you know you can actually look at his tax rates?

He released that plan and it isn't the dumb talking point from the drudge report crowd. Those are his personal opinions on wealth and the 90% one was talking about something that has happened here before

Like talking to a trump supporter, none of this matters to point out to you.

I mean, you have changed the topic so far from your absurd thought that the Supreme Court doesn't have the right to hear a case on marriage to berries tax plan.

Standing ovation on that good of a deflection

 

[sturg33]

"Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society"

That you try to equate those 2 as similar is like watching a freshman in poli sci 1101 class try to make a name for himself in the class the first day

Yes... free education is a civilized society. Good call duuuuude

 

[sturg33]

you know you can actually look at his tax rates?

He released that plan and it isn't the dumb talking point from the drudge report crowd. Those are his personal opinions on wealth and the 90% one was talking about something that has happened here before

Like talking to a trump supporter, none of this matters to point out to you.

I mean, you have changed the topic so far from your absurd thought that the Supreme Court doesn't have the right to hear a case on marriage to berries tax plan.

Standing ovation on that good of a deflection

I've seen Bernie's "plan"

That's why I'm convinced he's the dumbest candidate to ever run. His "plan" means he's either lying and will need to steal more (either from us or future generations), or he's a mathematical illiterate who has no business being taken seriously.

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he's simply stupid

 

[sturg33]

What does that have to do with what we were talking about?

As you like to say, it's not hard to keep up with the quote string.

57 said:

A Pew Research poll from last week found that the majority of Americans, 56 percent, say McConnell’s Senate should “hold hearings and vote on [President] Obama’s nominee.” Just 38 percent agree with McConnell’s "no hearings, no vote" approach.

To which I replied with this:

I agree that Obama should nominate and I agree that congress should hold the hearings. I just hope they only confirm a true constitutional judge (I know, I know - quit dreaming)

 

[sturg33]

Asking again... do I own the money I earn, or not?

 

[zitothebrave]

Asking again... do I own the money I earn, or not?

This is the most obtuse argument ever. If you want to live outside the laws of the land oyu live you live outside of the opportunity of the land you live. If you dont' want to pay income tax go live in Qatar or the Caymans. Do it. Leave where you live right now, and go live there. I'm sure you'll still have your job and security and so on so forth over there. If you don't like income taxes go live in a country without them. I'm sure you'll be so happy in the handful of uber corrupt ME nations and Caribbean nations without them. Go ahead and do it. No one is stopping you.

 

[sturg33]

I don't understand why you won't answer the question

 

[zitothebrave]

I don't understand why if you don't want to pay taxes that you just don't leave America and go live in the Cayman Islands. Why won't you do it?

 

[sturg33]

Probably because I don't have any family or friend there. I don't know much about the Caymens.

I have a good job here (private sector).

I don't like taxes, but I can live them if they are used for the right things. I think our economy could be much better and efficient than it is.

Now I'll ask again (for probably the 10th time)... do I own the money I earn or not?

 

[zitothebrave]

So what you're saying is you like your quality of living in America and don't feel like you could replicate that in another country?

 

[sturg33]

It's so funny that you won't answer the question... notice how I answered yours? It's not hard.

Here, I'll do it again. Yes, I think America has the most powerful economy in the world... Your boy Bernie wants to do things to further undermine it's progress. That's why I'm so against him. This isn't that complicated.

So I'll ask again... do I own the money I earn or not?

 

[zitothebrave]

In the same right that you own your land yes.

And according to the Constitution, the government can tax you on your income.

 

[sturg33]

In the same right that you own your land yes.

And according to the Constitution, the government can tax you on your income.

OK. thank you for clarifying.

 

[acesfull86]

I don't understand why if you don't want to pay taxes that you just don't leave America and go live in the Cayman Islands. Why won't you do it?

I'd assume it's for many of the same reasons Sanders' supporters would rather not pack up and head to a more socialist state abroad.

 

[zitothebrave]

I'd assume it's for many of the same reasons Sanders' supporters would rather not pack up and head to a more socialist state abroad.

I actually know plenty of Sanders supporters who want to move to another more liberal country, but they can't get a work visa for one reason or another.

 

[57Brave]

what for?

engage in the system and try to change it.

It can be done. So instead of pissing and moaning about paying taxes or what they go toward, get involved and have a more direct say in how it does

Senator Sanders has been doing this his entire adult life. Should the voters not buy what he is selling he has repeatedly, without complaint, gone back to the drawing board and refine his argument.

As far as his math not working I am sure everyone here has gone to a car dealership and kmowing their opening offer would be refused

Isn't that marketplace politics ?

Suppose he wins and has to make a deal with Speaker Pelosi to get the necesay votes, he has a number that is out of the ceiling to open discussion.

the argument that his math doesn't work is simplistic and Sophmoric .