What if we didnt break up the band

thewupk said:
I can agree with that. I still think it is a good value because I do put a lot of stock in his defensive numbers. But the Braves are a mid market team at best and I don't think that's going to change anytime soon. They put their money on Freeman and will have to find ways to fill in around him for the time being.
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So the eight plays he made last year that an average right fielder wouldn't (source: Inside Edge) are worth 3 WAR.
 
Hudson2 said:
Regardless of your love affair with him the Cubs expect a lot more for their money than he's producing. Stupid them for giving it to him I guess.
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The Cubs can afford to overpay some guys they need because they grew their core cheaply and quickly in-house.

/crosses fingers, prays hard//
 
Back to heyward....

I think the defensive metrics are screwy. Mallex is the second best defender this year by drs. Anyone believe that?

Heyward is a good player.

I do agree that we have to get over the cost issue. You don't get bonus wins or runs for being the most cost effective. If we want an impact free agent we will have to play 25-30 per year for at least 4 years. You just have to be right. It would be ok to hav a decline phase later. You just can't have the wren call off a cliff , ESP in first two yrs
 
At some this board is going to have to accept Jason Heyward is not and never will be an elite All-around player. He was brought up too soon another victim of the Atlanta hype machine. Just like Frenchy before him. You are never going to hear MVP and Heyward in the same breath.

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VirginiaBrave said:
At some this board is going to have to accept Jason Heyward is not and never will be an elite All-around player. He was brought up too soon another victim of the Atlanta hype machine. Just like Frenchy before him. You are never going to hear MVP and Heyward in the same breath.

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Lets not pretend the minors are some magical place that cures players of all their weaknesses. Heywood could have stayed in the minors 5 more years and he wouldn't be any better. If anything being the in the majors accelerates growth. You don't learn how to hit Kershaw's curveball by seeing Williams Perez's curve at AAA.
 
chop2chip said:
I can't say it devolved into a Heyward thread when the initial post was indeed about Heyward.
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The original post mentioned everyone's stats. Then we got into the same damn debate as always. Heyward is an elite defensive talent with some good offensive characteristics, but some people refuse to be realistic. If we had signed a free agent last offseason and they were hitting .211 with no home runs, this board would be very anxious.
 
bravesnumberone said:
The original post mentioned everyone's stats. Then we got into the same damn debate as always. Heyward is an elite defensive talent with some good offensive characteristics, but some people refuse to be realistic. If we had signed a free agent last offseason and they were hitting .211 with no home runs, this board would be very anxious.
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Heyward ALWAYS hits .211 with no power in April.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
Heyward ALWAYS hits .211 with no power in April.
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Close, Heyward's career avg in April is .225 and career OPS .705 in April. It is his worst month historically which is partly why it's funny that just like last year we have this discussion and debate using such a small sample (not just for Heyward, others mentioned in the OP and/or thread too). I mean if we're going to do so we should at least qualify our arguments noting what a small sample size it is all around this early in the season, etc. I just find it funny as we saw the exact same last season and some that looked so bad early ended up among the best list and vice versa. That is what happens when you have small sample sizes of course, a hot or cold month is not enough to go on.
 
Russ2dollas said:
Back to heyward....

I think the defensive metrics are screwy. Mallex is the second best defender this year by drs. Anyone believe that?

Heyward is a good player.

I do agree that we have to get over the cost issue. You don't get bonus wins or runs for being the most cost effective. If we want an impact free agent we will have to play 25-30 per year for at least 4 years. You just have to be right. It would be ok to hav a decline phase later. You just can't have the wren call off a cliff , ESP in first two yrs
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Does anyone think LaStella is a 1000 OPS player? Because that's what he is right now. Must be a screwy stat.
 
You guys can't still groan about not getting maximum for Kimbrel, then thinking that there was some team who was going to willing take on BJ without the pot sweetener.
 
Knucksie said:
You guys can't still groan about not getting maximum for Kimbrel, then thinking that there was some team who was going to willing take on BJ without the pot sweetener.
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Would it even matter if BJ was still on the team? Sadly he would be one of the better players at this point. What's the point in getting his contract off the team when we are as bad as we are with not much hope in the near future. I think the better course of action would be to just deal with it and get the max you can from Kimbrel. And when it became obvious that the turn around wouldn't be as quick as some thought then more people wished we had done that.
 
thewupk said:
Would it even matter if BJ was still on the team? Sadly he would be one of the better players at this point. What's the point in getting his contract off the team when we are as bad as we are with not much hope in the near future. I think the better course of action would be to just deal with it and get the max you can from Kimbrel. And when it became obvious that the turn around wouldn't be as quick as some thought then more people wished we had done that.
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They would be no worse. However, the same people who wanted him gone at all costs are the same ones thinking that another team was just going to accept a salary dump without additional incentive. Was there really anybody saying to just keep BJ at the time to retain Kimbrel? Doubt it.
 
Knucksie said:
They would be no worse. However, the same people who wanted him gone at all costs are the same ones thinking that another team was just going to accept a salary dump without additional incentive. Was there really anybody saying to just keep BJ at the time to retain Kimbrel? Doubt it.
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There were a few. Not many though. Of course people were under the impression the team wouldn't go into the complete gutter either.
 
thewupk said:
Would it even matter if BJ was still on the team? Sadly he would be one of the better players at this point. What's the point in getting his contract off the team when we are as bad as we are with not much hope in the near future. I think the better course of action would be to just deal with it and get the max you can from Kimbrel. And when it became obvious that the turn around wouldn't be as quick as some thought then more people wished we had done that.
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I think this is easy to point to in hindsight, but at the time of the trade it really was a no brainer great move offloading his contract and the risk of Kimbrel's contract. The fact that we a top 40 prospect in Wisler (who looks like a major league pitcher) and Riley (who is good prospect) makes that a trade you make 100/100 times.

Also, it's important to consider the timing. I didn't think it made any sense to hold out on Kimbrel to pitch into the season and risk injury. Obviously, nothing happened to Kimbrel last year, but that wasn't a risk Hart could take when it was obvious we weren't going to compete.
 
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