You get two FA signings and as many call-ups as you want; 2017 Lineup - Go

Horsehide Harry said:
Sticking with the rules...

Sign Carlos Beltran 1 year $18M with a team option for the same.
Sign Jake Peavy 1 year $5M with a team option for the same.

Call up no one to start the season, have a number of midseason call ups.

This all assuming no more Braves trades :mad0182:

Line up

CF M Smith
SS Jace Peterson
LF Beltran
1B Freeman
2B Gordon Beckham
RF Markakis
3B Hector Olivera
C Flowers

Bench: OF Inciarte, Inf/OF Adonis Garcia, C Anthony Recker, Util Omar Infante, OF Francouer, Util Chase d'Arnaud

Rotation: Teheran, Folty, Wisler, Gant, Peavy
Pen: Viz, Withrow, Krol, Simmons, Cabrera, Cervenka

Gotta play Olivera to try and get a return. Give him a chance to rehab himself both inside and outside baseball, but not too much of a chance. If he builds any value at all trade him as fast as you can.
Be prepared to trade essentially anyone on the ML team as constructed to start the year. Beltran especially is likely a good deadline deal piece. Give Albies and Swanson a minimum of 3 months in AAA and hopefully they earn the promotion at the trade deadline to finish out the year. Don't be afraid to move Teheran and/or Freeman for the right return.

Pare the obligated payroll as much as possible throughout the 2017 season and spend big and wisely on the FA market between 2017 and 2018.
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I see where you are coming from, but I believe the Braves want someone to come to their new ballpark next year.
 
mfree80 said:
I see where you are coming from, but I believe the Braves want someone to come to their new ballpark next year.
Click to expand...

Next year isn't the issue. People will come to the new park because it's new. But, they won't keep coming unless they win.

Think about it - what difference does a 90 loss team make on attendance as compared to a 100 loss team?

So, UNLESS the Braves are prepared to go spend like a drunken sailor this offseason (and the timing is bad for that because the FA crop is lousy), they face a 90+ loss team anyway.

Why tie up the finances when it makes no real difference for 2017 but could make a big difference in 2018.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Next year isn't the issue. People will come to the new park because it's new. But, they won't keep coming unless they win.

Think about it - what difference does a 90 loss team make on attendance as compared to a 100 loss team?

So, UNLESS the Braves are prepared to go spend like a drunken sailor this offseason (and the timing is bad for that because the FA crop is lousy), they face a 90+ loss team anyway.

Why tie up the finances when it makes no real difference for 2017 but could make a big difference in 2018.
Click to expand...

As I said, I see your point. I just don't think the Braves will do it.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Next year isn't the issue. People will come to the new park because it's new. But, they won't keep coming unless they win.

Think about it - what difference does a 90 loss team make on attendance as compared to a 100 loss team?

So, UNLESS the Braves are prepared to go spend like a drunken sailor this offseason (and the timing is bad for that because the FA crop is lousy), they face a 90+ loss team anyway.

Why tie up the finances when it makes no real difference for 2017 but could make a big difference in 2018.
Click to expand...

The following free agency period isn't all that great either. It's the one after the 2018 season that has everyone up in arms. So many things can change in two years. Many players will be extended. Other guys will flame out or have career altering injuries. We're not going to sit around for two more years waiting on that free agency class, when we have a product to sell. Yes, the Braves, the stadium, and the complex are all products to sell. That's also when our younger players will be hitting their stride and we won't need to spend as much. We can still make an attempt to be competitive (and entertaining) for two more years so we can have more payroll to spend on whomever is in that class we like by then.
 
Trade:
Red Sox give up: Benintindi, Kopech, Travis, Chavis, Ball, Chatham. Red Sox get: Tehran and Viz and one of Blair/Jenkins
Padres give up: Renfroe and Norris Padres get: Travis, Chavis, Ball, Chatham
Braves give up: Tehran and Vizand one of Blair/Jenkins
Braves get: Benintindi, Kopech, Renfroe and Norris

2B: Albies (S)
SS: Swanson (R)
1B: FF (L)
3B: Freese 1 year 15 million, team option for 10 million next year with a 3 million buy out, team option for the next year for 10 million with a 1 million buy out....overpay but cheap line up overall
RF: Benintindi (L)
LF: Renfroe (R)
CF: Inciarte/Mallex (L)........pick your favorite
C: Norris
P

Folty
Newcomeb
Fister-------1 year 10 million with team option for 10 million next year, 3 million buy out
Wisler/Blair/Jenkins/Gant

Pen:
Simmons/Winkler/Paco-at least 2 come back from injury and are ok
Minter
Winthrow
Hursh
Cabrera

Bench
Neck
Jace
Castro
Others....maybe you can get Frenchy back but it would be a lot of OFs. But Jace playing back up at SS/2B etc, maybe

My team is young. Exciting. Pretty cheap. Has vets on it in Neck, FF, Norris, Flowers, Fresse, Fister to make Coppy happy.

Prob win 75 games unless everything goes perfectly. High upside. Just a lot of rookies so expect major up and down. By overpaying for team options we are still flexible if a Donaldson or Mochado decides they hate their team.
 
Chico said:
The following free agency period isn't all that great either. It's the one after the 2018 season that has everyone up in arms. So many things can change in two years. Many players will be extended. Other guys will flame out or have career altering injuries. We're not going to sit around for two more years waiting on that free agency class, when we have a product to sell. Yes, the Braves, the stadium, and the complex are all products to sell. That's also when our younger players will be hitting their stride and we won't need to spend as much. We can still make an attempt to be competitive (and entertaining) for two more years so we can have more payroll to spend on whomever is in that class we like by then.
Click to expand...

It's not about exclusively waiting for a FA class, be it after 2017 (Moustakas, Hosmer, etc) OR after 2018 (Harper, Donaldson, Machado, etc). It's about waiting to spend your payroll on difference makers instead of tying it up on guys who aren't long term difference makers when you haven't seen your young talent enough yet to actually know what your needs are.

The 2016 Braves are going to lose closer to 110 games than 100. Just getting to a 90 loss season, given the current state of readiness of internal options and given the FA options that are available after this season, would be a HUGE leap and it still means you are one of the worst teams in baseball. I would say competitive is .500 or better with a realistic playoff chance being 85 wins or better. This team is having CAREER, or at least nearly so, years from both Teheran and Freeman right now and are STILL going to lose 110 games. Without HUGE amounts of internal help to combine with external FA and/or trade acquisitions, this team isn't getting anywhere near .500.

I might feel differently if enough of the young pitching had actually turned a corner and shown that next year they should be above average ML starters. But, as of now the only young pitcher who has come even close to that is Folty and he seems injury prone to an extent. Wisler, Blair, ManBan, etc. have all shown that they haven't turned the corner yet and may never. Guys like Gant, Whalen, Newcomb, and other "close" arms haven't proved anything that says that they will be anything more than breaking in in 2017. Then the offense is absolutely horrible. I can't see how even the staunchest pro-Inciarte or Mallex supporters can continue to count on them as better than 4th OF types right now. Markakis is an expensive disaster. Olivera is an larval maggot on the open sore of the franchise.

Everyone better get their Ruby Slippers out and start tapping the heels together because the glass slipper belongs to someone else.
 
Russ2dollas said:
Trade:
Red Sox give up: Benintindi, Kopech, Travis, Chavis, Ball, Chatham. Red Sox get: Tehran and Viz and one of Blair/Jenkins
Padres give up: Renfroe and Norris Padres get: Travis, Chavis, Ball, Chatham
Braves give up: Tehran and Vizand one of Blair/Jenkins
Braves get: Benintindi, Kopech, Renfroe and Norris

2B: Albies (S)
SS: Swanson (R)
1B: FF (L)
3B: Freese 1 year 15 million, team option for 10 million next year with a 3 million buy out, team option for the next year for 10 million with a 1 million buy out....overpay but cheap line up overall
RF: Benintindi (L)
LF: Renfroe (R)
CF: Inciarte/Mallex (L)........pick your favorite
C: Norris
P

Folty
Newcomeb
Fister-------1 year 10 million with team option for 10 million next year, 3 million buy out
Wisler/Blair/Jenkins/Gant

Pen:
Simmons/Winkler/Paco-at least 2 come back from injury and are ok
Minter
Winthrow
Hursh
Cabrera

Bench
Neck
Jace
Castro
Others....maybe you can get Frenchy back but it would be a lot of OFs. But Jace playing back up at SS/2B etc, maybe

My team is young. Exciting. Pretty cheap. Has vets on it in Neck, FF, Norris, Flowers, Fresse, Fister to make Coppy happy.

Prob win 75 games unless everything goes perfectly. High upside. Just a lot of rookies so expect major up and down. By overpaying for team options we are still flexible if a Donaldson or Mochado decides they hate their team.
Click to expand...

I see what you're doing and like the thought process. I left out trades because the rules were "sign 2 FA and bring up who you want." I am loudly on record for more trades and if trades are allowed, my 2017 would be VERY different.
 
With Trades....

With the heavy value being placed on pitching, I think you have to strike while the iron is hot and makes some moves.

Assumptions: Braves are smart enough to know that "being competitive" in 2017 is a pipe dream. The Pirates are still trying to compete THIS year and aren't going to turn into sellers overnight. That the Rockies will follow through on their approach of keeping their guys and trying to compete next year. That the Indians lose out on the Lucroy sweepstakes.

I admit improbable because it would take several things to go right and a lot of work and a lot of guts, but Before you dismiss as impossible consider the prices being recognized for really mediocre guys right now. As for the Colorado trade proposed below, understand that they supposedly are keeping their guys in effort to compete next year but need more SP and Teheran and Folty are both better than any FA options right now and fit what the Rocks are looking for (I know Teheran gives up the long ball but the Rocks have moved away from ground ball guys to K guys).

Trade 1: Viz, Inciarte, Krol and AJP to Cleveland for OF Frazier & OF Will Benson

Trade 2: Freeman, Cabrera, Cervenka to Pittsburgh for OF Meadows, 1B Josh Bell, C Reese McGuire (plus LHP Jon Niese and Jeff Locke, even out money of Freeman - salary dump for Pitt)

Trade 3: Teheran, Folty, Withrow to Colorado for OF Dahl, SS/3B Brendan Rodgers, C Dom Nunez

Trade 4: Markakis and $11M to Baltimore for 1B Trey Mancini

FA sign RHP Peavy (1 year $6 Million, club option for same)
FA sign Matt Latos (1 year $6M, club option same)
FA Sign Carlos Beltran (1 year $18M, club option)

Open 2017 lineup:

SP: Wisler, Peavy, Latos, Locke, Niese
RP: Minter, Simmons, Hursh, O'Flaherty, Bradley, Morriss, Kent

C Flowers/Recker
1B Mancini
2B Beckham
SS Peterson
3B Olivera
CF Smith
LF Beltran
RF Francouer
(absolutely horrible)

After the All-Star Break 2017:

SP: Wisler, Niese, Peavy, Newcomb, Blair (or Whalen, Gant, Jenkins, etc.) with Allard, Toussaint, Fried, Soroka etc. as next wave
Pen: same

1B: Mancini/Bell
2B: Albies/Demeritte
SS: Swanson/Peterson
3B: Ruiz/Rodgers/Riley
C: Flowers/Nunez/Reese
LF: Beltran/Dahl/Peterson
CF: Meadows/Smith/Acuna
RF: Frazier/Davidson

That doesn't count anyone below full season A like Maitan...

Payroll after 2017 is almost nothing which allows you to shop to fill any holes (for instance, Rodgers isn't ready, maybe you go hard after Moustakas) and then after 2018 you have money to shop again to fill holes again.

Plus, you have your second and third wind waves of prospects including the young pitching and International guys that are already in-system but are very far away AND the talent not yet drafted/signed due to finishing with the worst record in baseball after 2016, and a likely bad record after 2017.

Of course, you have to be willing to take the criticism of having virtually NO name players opening the new stadium.
 
Been thinking about the buy low/add talent through salary acquisition and came up with:

Matt Cain from SF and Lucious Fox for Markakis

Cain is owed $20M next year and then a $7.5M buyout. Markakis is owed $11M per year for the next two years. Fox balances out the money. Markakis probably has more value to SF right now than Cain and helps them with payroll for next year. Cain fills the veteran/back end acquisition that the Braves would make in the offseason anyway (at a much higher $, but therefore...Fox)
 
Horsehide Harry said:
With Trades....

With the heavy value being placed on pitching, I think you have to strike while the iron is hot and makes some moves.

Assumptions: Braves are smart enough to know that "being competitive" in 2017 is a pipe dream. The Pirates are still trying to compete THIS year and aren't going to turn into sellers overnight. That the Rockies will follow through on their approach of keeping their guys and trying to compete next year. That the Indians lose out on the Lucroy sweepstakes.

I admit improbable because it would take several things to go right and a lot of work and a lot of guts, but Before you dismiss as impossible consider the prices being recognized for really mediocre guys right now. As for the Colorado trade proposed below, understand that they supposedly are keeping their guys in effort to compete next year but need more SP and Teheran and Folty are both better than any FA options right now and fit what the Rocks are looking for (I know Teheran gives up the long ball but the Rocks have moved away from ground ball guys to K guys).

Trade 1: Viz, Inciarte, Krol and AJP to Cleveland for OF Frazier & OF Will Benson

Trade 2: Freeman, Cabrera, Cervenka to Pittsburgh for OF Meadows, 1B Josh Bell, C Reese McGuire (plus LHP Jon Niese and Jeff Locke, even out money of Freeman - salary dump for Pitt)

Trade 3: Teheran, Folty, Withrow to Colorado for OF Dahl, SS/3B Brendan Rodgers, C Dom Nunez

Trade 4: Markakis and $11M to Baltimore for 1B Trey Mancini

FA sign RHP Peavy (1 year $6 Million, club option for same)
FA sign Matt Latos (1 year $6M, club option same)
FA Sign Carlos Beltran (1 year $18M, club option)

Open 2017 lineup:

SP: Wisler, Peavy, Latos, Locke, Niese
RP: Minter, Simmons, Hursh, O'Flaherty, Bradley, Morriss, Kent

C Flowers/Recker
1B Mancini
2B Beckham
SS Peterson
3B Olivera
CF Smith
LF Beltran
RF Francouer
(absolutely horrible)

After the All-Star Break 2017:

SP: Wisler, Niese, Peavy, Newcomb, Blair (or Whalen, Gant, Jenkins, etc.) with Allard, Toussaint, Fried, Soroka etc. as next wave
Pen: same

1B: Mancini/Bell
2B: Albies/Demeritte
SS: Swanson/Peterson
3B: Ruiz/Rodgers/Riley
C: Flowers/Nunez/Reese
LF: Beltran/Dahl/Peterson
CF: Meadows/Smith/Acuna
RF: Frazier/Davidson

That doesn't count anyone below full season A like Maitan...

Payroll after 2017 is almost nothing which allows you to shop to fill any holes (for instance, Rodgers isn't ready, maybe you go hard after Moustakas) and then after 2018 you have money to shop again to fill holes again.

Plus, you have your second and third wind waves of prospects including the young pitching and International guys that are already in-system but are very far away AND the talent not yet drafted/signed due to finishing with the worst record in baseball after 2016, and a likely bad record after 2017.

Of course, you have to be willing to take the criticism of having virtually NO name players opening the new stadium.
Click to expand...

I can't see any of those trades happening, outside of the Markakis deal.
 
Re-try post Kemp.

1B:Freeman
2B: Albies
3B: Sign Freese
LF: Kemp/Markakis Platoon-----never happen I know
CF: Inciarte
RF: Reddick-2 years and 40 million with 10 million team option should do it. Yea it's an overpay but it buys us some Dustin Peterson and/or number 1 pick time
C: Trade for Mac

Tehran
Some Vet on a 1-2 year deal-extra signing I know
Folty
Newcombe
Jenkins/Gant/Blair/etc

Viz
Simmons/Winkler/Paco-I say 2 come back full strength
Minter
Cabrera
.............Those are some really good pen arms
fill it out with others

72 wins. We look like we're going places. Swanson and Albies have some vets to support them and don't get mired in losing. Break in some more young guys like Newcombe, Minter, Cabrera. A couple of more years bought for Ruiz and peterson to mature and see if there is any more power in there.
 
Start Swanson and Albies from day 1 next year.
Sign Ramos 4/60
Sign Desmond 4/72
Trade Newcomb, Sims and Mallex for Archer

2b - Albies
SS - Swanson
1b - Freeman
LF - Kemp
3b - Desmond
C - Ramos
RF - Markakis
Cf - Inciarte

Teheran
Archer
Blair
Wisler
Folty

That would be a very competitive team. It may take another piece to get Archer but he's young, on an excellent contract, and would be a beast in the NL.
 
Hudson2 said:
Start Swanson and Albies from day 1 next year.
Sign Ramos 4/60
Sign Desmond 4/72
Trade Newcomb, Sims and Mallex for Archer

2b - Albies
SS - Swanson
1b - Freeman
LF - Kemp
3b - Desmond
C - Ramos
RF - Markakis
Cf - Inciarte

Teheran
Archer
Blair
Wisler
Folty

That would be a very competitive team. It may take another piece to get Archer but he's young, on an excellent contract, and would be a beast in the NL.
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I REALLY like the Archer idea. I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted even more, but a Teheran-Archer-led rotation would be nasty.
 
Hudson2 said:
Start Swanson and Albies from day 1 next year.
Sign Ramos 4/60
Sign Desmond 4/72
Trade Newcomb, Sims and Mallex for Archer

2b - Albies
SS - Swanson
1b - Freeman
LF - Kemp
3b - Desmond
C - Ramos
RF - Markakis
Cf - Inciarte

Teheran
Archer
Blair
Wisler
Folty

That would be a very competitive team. It may take another piece to get Archer but he's young, on an excellent contract, and would be a beast in the NL.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure we're giving up a draft pick, but maybe we will. If we sign multiple pick attached FA do we lose our second and third pick?

I like the Desmond move. I'm a little wary of his performance continuing moving forward. But he would provide positional versatility and I think he would enjoy sticking it to the Nationals more frequently.

Albies
Swanson
FF
Kemp/Jace-platoon
Desmond
Ramos
Markakis/Frenchy platoon
Inciarte

It's not bad.

4/60 for Ramos scares me. Maybe we could frontload and get some affordability late if he falls off at his age. I could see Mac too.

If you can get Desmond at 3B that does open up some options.
Jace can be utility player vs RH pitching at a bunch of spots.
If you can dump Markakis you could do a lot in RF.

I'm starting to warm up to the idea of Dustin Peterson in RF. Klaw said in his last chat that he had little doubt he could hit. If he's 22 and hitting a bunch of doubles for peanuts that might be worth doing now. I'm sure we'll resign Frenchy as Coppy's new AJP. So Frenchy can play RF for the first couple of weeks to keep Peterson out of super 2 and prove he sucks.

Or is you sign desmond then you could potentially play whomever is more ready, Ruiz or Peterson. You could even send them down and move Desmond around. Play Desmond in CF vs LH pitching and let Garcia play 3B.

Ok i'm in on Desmond now for 4/72
 
Desmonds profile probably doesn't age well. That is probably not the type of guy you want to employ in his 30s.
 
Ramos is 28 so I wouldn't be opposed to him on a 4 year deal. Ruiz isn't gonna amount to much imo so I wouldn't let him hamper any thoughts I'd have at 3b. Desmond is pretty versatile so I'd be ok with him as long as the deal wasn't to long but stays in pretty good shape so he should age well.
 
Desmond said one of the reasons he signed with Texas is the opportunity to play CF if he was no longer viewed as a SS. After the reports of him being a big clubhouse guy and good teammate along with the trading of Brinson I'm thinking he resigns with the Rangers. If he does I'd try and get Ryan Cordell in the offseason to add a versatile RH bat in the OF.

I'd still go after Reddick. My 2nd free agent would be dependent on who has a pick tied to them. Mark Melancon might be a good get while we let the kids settle in to their roles.
 
Hudson2 said:
Start Swanson and Albies from day 1 next year.
Sign Ramos 4/60
Sign Desmond 4/72
Trade Newcomb, Sims and Mallex for Archer

2b - Albies
SS - Swanson
1b - Freeman
LF - Kemp
3b - Desmond
C - Ramos
RF - Markakis
Cf - Inciarte

Teheran
Archer
Blair
Wisler
Folty

That would be a very competitive team. It may take another piece to get Archer but he's young, on an excellent contract, and would be a beast in the NL.
Click to expand...

I can't see TB taking anything close to that package for Archer.
 
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