2016 Trade Deadline Rumors and Moves

I love what the Braves have done and I think they continue to do a very good job, but people are unrealistic about this farm system in comparison to the whole league. It's REALLY good, but you can have a logical discussion on rankings.
 
They won't sell off anymore players like Freeman or Teheran, that's over. They are gonna build around those 2 and trade for another legit ace or a high end young bat in the offseason along with signing a catcher. I hope we can secure the #1 pick this year so we can add another really solid draft before they try to compete.
 
UNCBlue012 said:
I love what the Braves have done and I think they continue to do a very good job, but people are unrealistic about this farm system in comparison to the whole league. It's REALLY good, but you can have a logical discussion on rankings.
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Agreed, the Braves system is in the top-tier of baseball -- maybe some prefer the Yanks/Sox/Astros/Nats/Pads...... but the Braves are right there with any of them. I know Callis was saying he prefers the Yankees system right now.

There's a TON of boom/bust in our system as much of our talent is in the lower levels, in a couple years if guys like Soroka/Allard/Wentz/Muller/Anderson/Maitain/Cruz/Pache/Severino/Soto/Pena/Acuna/Guiterrez progress -- our system could be scary good. Of course a lot of that young talent could easily bust as well, in which case our system looks much more mediocre.
 
Hudson2 said:
They won't sell off anymore players like Freeman or Teheran, that's over. They are gonna build around those 2 and trade for another legit ace or a high end young bat in the offseason along with signing a catcher. I hope we can secure the #1 pick this year so we can add another really solid draft before they try to compete.
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Which is about as short-sighted as it gets. To get that ACE, if he's available, which he won't be but besides the point, they would have to part with a big chunk of that minor league talent that they have worked so hard to acquire. So, hypothetically, they trade for Sale. What do you think it would take not just for Chicago to move him but for the Braves to out-compete other teams to actually land him? I think it would likely take Swanson, Newcomb, Allard, Riley and maybe a young guy like Wentz. Are you willing to give that up? I'm not. Why? Because the ML team as currently constructed has more holes than the Titanic and not the Titanic that sunk in 1912 but the one they found after it had been on the bottom for 100 years.

Where are they going to get the "high-end" young bat? I am assuming you are talking about a bat that is already currently in the majors and doing well. Let's dispense with the obvious not-gonna-happen guys like Harper, Trout, Bryant, etc. Ok, who you got? Meyers? If he was available and the Braves were willing to part with what it would take and if he could play a position other than 1B and it not affect his bat, he would already be a Brave!

The way to speed the re-build would be through FA acquisitions, where they don't actually have to give up long term talent for short term gain. But the timing is bad for that since the FA class is made up of a small handful of decent players who are on the wrong side of 30 and then a bunch of has been's and never was's.

Everyone jumps my arse about coming up with trades for players on other teams as being "unrealistic." And, I agree that to an extent that's my way of surviving this god awful baseball, by looking for ways to make the team better long term. But, I will say, that many, if not most, of the players that I have targeted recently in mock trades were moved. Could the Braves have acquired some of those guys if they had just been aggressive in the rebuild stance (we see that you need a catcher, a closer and an outfielder Cleveland, what about AJ, Inciarte, Viz and Krol for Frazier and Mejia?) instead of passive (we're not trading our guys but you can make an offer, and when nothing happens the offers were "bad").

Barring a HUGE commitment of cash AND a complete un-doing of the previous rebuild work, THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE A GOOD TEAM IN 2017. Could they be a .500 team? With tremendous luck, career years for a number of players, big expenditure on FA that will ultimately strangle future ability to sign better FA, maybe, just maybe. But even so, .500 is the very definition of mediocrity.

Does anyone actually think that a .500 team, following a 105 loss team is going to have a hugely significant effect on attendance? To go from maybe 1.2M fans (new park bump) to maybe 1.5M? Those 300,000 assuming an average unit expense of $50 equates to $15M in revenue. Double that number to account for lost advertising, merchandise, etc. So $30M not recognized in 2017. Soooooooo, don't spend that $30M on mediocre FA.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Which is about as short-sighted as it gets. To get that ACE, if he's available, which he won't be but besides the point, they would have to part with a big chunk of that minor league talent that they have worked so hard to acquire. So, hypothetically, they trade for Sale. What do you think it would take not just for Chicago to move him but for the Braves to out-compete other teams to actually land him? I think it would likely take Swanson, Newcomb, Allard, Riley and maybe a young guy like Wentz. Are you willing to give that up? I'm not. Why? Because the ML team as currently constructed has more holes than the Titanic and not the Titanic that sunk in 1912 but the one they found after it had been on the bottom for 100 years.

Where are they going to get the "high-end" young bat? I am assuming you are talking about a bat that is already currently in the majors and doing well. Let's dispense with the obvious not-gonna-happen guys like Harper, Trout, Bryant, etc. Ok, who you got? Meyers? If he was available and the Braves were willing to part with what it would take and if he could play a position other than 1B and it not affect his bat, he would already be a Brave!

The way to speed the re-build would be through FA acquisitions, where they don't actually have to give up long term talent for short term gain. But the timing is bad for that since the FA class is made up of a small handful of decent players who are on the wrong side of 30 and then a bunch of has been's and never was's.

Everyone jumps my arse about coming up with trades for players on other teams as being "unrealistic." And, I agree that to an extent that's my way of surviving this god awful baseball, by looking for ways to make the team better long term. But, I will say, that many, if not most, of the players that I have targeted recently in mock trades were moved. Could the Braves have acquired some of those guys if they had just been aggressive in the rebuild stance (we see that you need a catcher, a closer and an outfielder Cleveland, what about AJ, Inciarte, Viz and Krol for Frazier and Mejia?) instead of passive (we're not trading our guys but you can make an offer, and when nothing happens the offers were "bad").

Barring a HUGE commitment of cash AND a complete un-doing of the previous rebuild work, THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE A GOOD TEAM IN 2017. Could they be a .500 team? With tremendous luck, career years for a number of players, big expenditure on FA that will ultimately strangle future ability to sign better FA, maybe, just maybe. But even so, .500 is the very definition of mediocrity.

Does anyone actually think that a .500 team, following a 105 loss team is going to have a hugely significant effect on attendance? To go from maybe 1.2M fans (new park bump) to maybe 1.5M? Those 300,000 assuming an average unit expense of $50 equates to $15M in revenue. Double that number to account for lost advertising, merchandise, etc. So $30M not recognized in 2017. Soooooooo, don't spend that $30M on mediocre FA.
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I'm just saying what they are probably thinking. Bc Coppy hasn't budged on his stance thus far. If you think they are gonna sell off any more parts then I don't know what to tell you. They will be buyers this offseason.
 
Hudson2 said:
I'm just saying what they are probably thinking. Bc Coppy hasn't budged on his stance thus far. If you think they are gonna sell off any more parts then I don't know what to tell you. They will be buyers this offseason.
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Oh, I don't think they will. I think they are the wrong management team for the undertaking that they are doing. A rebuild is always messy and full of heat from fans and media because they want everything now, now, NOW! And I don't see the Johns as having the guts to follow through so I think they will try to play the middle, sort of half rebuild, half compete and end up being crap at both.
 
I do believe if you're going to rebuild then do it all the way or nothing. If a good offer for Freeman and Teheran came along they should have taken it rather than saying they are untouchable. You never say that when rebuilding.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Which is about as short-sighted as it gets. To get that ACE, if he's available, which he won't be but besides the point, they would have to part with a big chunk of that minor league talent that they have worked so hard to acquire. So, hypothetically, they trade for Sale. What do you think it would take not just for Chicago to move him but for the Braves to out-compete other teams to actually land him? I think it would likely take Swanson, Newcomb, Allard, Riley and maybe a young guy like Wentz. Are you willing to give that up? I'm not. Why? Because the ML team as currently constructed has more holes than the Titanic and not the Titanic that sunk in 1912 but the one they found after it had been on the bottom for 100 years.

Where are they going to get the "high-end" young bat? I am assuming you are talking about a bat that is already currently in the majors and doing well. Let's dispense with the obvious not-gonna-happen guys like Harper, Trout, Bryant, etc. Ok, who you got? Meyers? If he was available and the Braves were willing to part with what it would take and if he could play a position other than 1B and it not affect his bat, he would already be a Brave!

The way to speed the re-build would be through FA acquisitions, where they don't actually have to give up long term talent for short term gain. But the timing is bad for that since the FA class is made up of a small handful of decent players who are on the wrong side of 30 and then a bunch of has been's and never was's.

Everyone jumps my arse about coming up with trades for players on other teams as being "unrealistic." And, I agree that to an extent that's my way of surviving this god awful baseball, by looking for ways to make the team better long term. But, I will say, that many, if not most, of the players that I have targeted recently in mock trades were moved. Could the Braves have acquired some of those guys if they had just been aggressive in the rebuild stance (we see that you need a catcher, a closer and an outfielder Cleveland, what about AJ, Inciarte, Viz and Krol for Frazier and Mejia?) instead of passive (we're not trading our guys but you can make an offer, and when nothing happens the offers were "bad").

Barring a HUGE commitment of cash AND a complete un-doing of the previous rebuild work, THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE A GOOD TEAM IN 2017. Could they be a .500 team? With tremendous luck, career years for a number of players, big expenditure on FA that will ultimately strangle future ability to sign better FA, maybe, just maybe. But even so, .500 is the very definition of mediocrity.

Does anyone actually think that a .500 team, following a 105 loss team is going to have a hugely significant effect on attendance? To go from maybe 1.2M fans (new park bump) to maybe 1.5M? Those 300,000 assuming an average unit expense of $50 equates to $15M in revenue. Double that number to account for lost advertising, merchandise, etc. So $30M not recognized in 2017. Soooooooo, don't spend that $30M on mediocre FA.
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.500 is hardly mediocrity. That's about 5 games back from making the playoffs.

And this team will be adding Swanson, Albies, a full year of Mallex Smith, and potentially an above average catcher. We won't have a juggernaut offense, but even if we are league average, that would be an amazing improvement from what we are now.

The main concern is the rotation. Honestly, how good/bad we can be in 2017 is mostly dependent on our pitching staff. If Folty can continue to make strides and Wisler can get back on track, that would go a long ways. Sign a FA veteran pitcher or trade for a controllable guy like Archer and then go with Jenkins, Newcomb, or Blair for the 5th spot. If Folty and Wisler get hurt/can't improve then it will be a long year yet again.
 
Carp said:
.500 is hardly mediocrity. That's about 5 games back from making the playoffs.
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.500 is the very definition of mediocrity. Making the playoffs has nothing to do with it.

You can be 6-6 in college football or 8-8 in Pro football and still make a bowl or the playoffs. It doesn't mean you are not mediocre. It just means that there are too many playoff teams.
 
Hudson2 said:
I do believe if you're going to rebuild then do it all the way or nothing. If a good offer for Freeman and Teheran came along they should have taken it rather than saying they are untouchable. You never say that when rebuilding.
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We very much agree here.

I think that there was a tendency to write off JC's comments about not trading Teheran and Freeman as some kind of GM speak, that somehow his private message was different than his public message, that it was some kind of passive-aggressive form of GM negotiation. I think he didn't want the heat, so he made the public announcement, then privately set the bar so high that he knew no one would pay it. Word got around fast and teams quit calling.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
.500 is the very definition of mediocrity. Making the playoffs has nothing to do with it.

You can be 6-6 in college football or 8-8 in Pro football and still make a bowl or the playoffs. It doesn't mean you are not mediocre. It just means that there are too many playoff teams.
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I think you mean .500 is the very definition of median. Mediocrity is moderate quality or not very good. So while it's all semantics .500 baseball is not necessarily mediocre baseball considering ones definition of it and how close it can get you to the playoffs. Which in baseball is all that matters. See 2014 Royals among many other examples.
 
thewupk said:
I think you mean .500 is the very definition of median. Mediocrity is moderate quality or not very good. So while it's all semantics .500 baseball is not necessarily mediocre baseball considering ones definition of it and how close it can get you to the playoffs. Which in baseball is all that matters. See 2014 Royals among many other examples.
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examples? And what did they do in the playoffs and how did the organization fare afterwards?

Build to last or build a treadmill
 
Horsehide Harry said:
examples? And what did they do in the playoffs and how did the organization fare afterwards?

Build to last or build a treadmill
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The point is that a true talent .500 team can luck their way into the plaoyffs and make noise. It's happened before and will happen again. Will that be the Braves in 2017? Probably not. Either way I don't think it matters. They are going to promote Albies and Swanson next year and start their ascent with regular promotions of prospects year after year. Doesn't mean I think they will contend next year because a lot would have to go right. But a lot has gone right for several teams throughout the years.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Which is about as short-sighted as it gets. To get that ACE, if he's available, which he won't be but besides the point, they would have to part with a big chunk of that minor league talent that they have worked so hard to acquire. So, hypothetically, they trade for Sale. What do you think it would take not just for Chicago to move him but for the Braves to out-compete other teams to actually land him? I think it would likely take Swanson, Newcomb, Allard, Riley and maybe a young guy like Wentz. Are you willing to give that up? I'm not. Why? Because the ML team as currently constructed has more holes than the Titanic and not the Titanic that sunk in 1912 but the one they found after it had been on the bottom for 100 years.

Where are they going to get the "high-end" young bat? I am assuming you are talking about a bat that is already currently in the majors and doing well. Let's dispense with the obvious not-gonna-happen guys like Harper, Trout, Bryant, etc. Ok, who you got? Meyers? If he was available and the Braves were willing to part with what it would take and if he could play a position other than 1B and it not affect his bat, he would already be a Brave!

The way to speed the re-build would be through FA acquisitions, where they don't actually have to give up long term talent for short term gain. But the timing is bad for that since the FA class is made up of a small handful of decent players who are on the wrong side of 30 and then a bunch of has been's and never was's.

Everyone jumps my arse about coming up with trades for players on other teams as being "unrealistic." And, I agree that to an extent that's my way of surviving this god awful baseball, by looking for ways to make the team better long term. But, I will say, that many, if not most, of the players that I have targeted recently in mock trades were moved. Could the Braves have acquired some of those guys if they had just been aggressive in the rebuild stance (we see that you need a catcher, a closer and an outfielder Cleveland, what about AJ, Inciarte, Viz and Krol for Frazier and Mejia?) instead of passive (we're not trading our guys but you can make an offer, and when nothing happens the offers were "bad").

Barring a HUGE commitment of cash AND a complete un-doing of the previous rebuild work, THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE A GOOD TEAM IN 2017. Could they be a .500 team? With tremendous luck, career years for a number of players, big expenditure on FA that will ultimately strangle future ability to sign better FA, maybe, just maybe. But even so, .500 is the very definition of mediocrity.

Does anyone actually think that a .500 team, following a 105 loss team is going to have a hugely significant effect on attendance? To go from maybe 1.2M fans (new park bump) to maybe 1.5M? Those 300,000 assuming an average unit expense of $50 equates to $15M in revenue. Double that number to account for lost advertising, merchandise, etc. So $30M not recognized in 2017. Soooooooo, don't spend that $30M on mediocre FA.
Click to expand...

I'm going to assume you're not from Atlanta. That complex is going to be a cash cow! They're bringing the "inside the perimeter" experience to "outside the perimeter" and they're working with the DOT to provide easier access points. Traffic rules every decision you make ion the Atlanta area.Ticket sales will be a part of the revenue, but the sales pitch they're given at the game will be the real revenue generated.
 
thewupk said:
The point is that a true talent .500 team can luck their way into the plaoyffs and make noise. It's happened before and will happen again. Will that be the Braves in 2017? Probably not. Either way I don't think it matters. They are going to promote Albies and Swanson next year and start their ascent with regular promotions of prospects year after year. Doesn't mean I think they will contend next year because a lot would have to go right. But a lot has gone right for several teams throughout the years.
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I think they know their true time is 2-3 years away. They pour over every probable outcome for a living. The thing is until the prospects come up and make their mark you have to field a team that will sell tickets. So you make the best effort you can to not hamstring yourself for the future and to put an entertaining product on the field. If everything happens perfectly you got yourself a winner and if not no harm no foul.
 
Chico said:
I think they know their true time is 2-3 years away. They pour over every probable outcome for a living. The thing is until the prospects come up and make their mark you have to field a team that will sell tickets. So you make the best effort you can to not hamstring yourself for the future and to put an entertaining product on the field. If everything happens perfectly you got yourself a winner and if not no harm no foul.
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I would agree with this. Which is why a Kemp deal doesn't bother me at all even if it's an overpay in $$$. Because the Braves can absorb that in bad years where they aren't near max payroll. He didn't cost a draft pick or any prospects. It also frees up 8 million in 2020 where payroll will be more important for arbitration which Albies and or Swanson will likely have at that time.
 
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