Muk for Mac

dak said:
I'm generally a fan of Dave Cameron, but not sure I understand his point on this one. I didn't think we got the right value in the Kemp trade, but I didn't have any problem with the "philosophy" of the move. The Braves are team that has bottomed out in the rebuild process and has started to build back up to contend in 2017. I think its very appropriate to sign veteran stop gaps in that situation. Now the Markakis signing in Fall 2014 . . . that was not a good philosophy.
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Its based on us probably not contending next year. I think 2019 is realistic and McCann would be 33 or 34, I think.
 
zitothebrave said:
Did you read the article? He said he could see the cubs being 3-5 wins better or possibly contending for .500 and they were 7 games better. He picked apart writers who had them winning the division and winning 90+ games and they fell just shy. ANd that was with unlikely seasons from Duffy, Ventura, and Vargas who all had their lowest ERA seasons as starters
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Yes I did read the article. Apparently you didn't. Cameron suggested that their models projected 74 wins and that by accounts this should not be a very good team. But HE believed they could be "surprisingly not awful" and a .500 record wasn't our of the question.

gilesfan said:
No, he didn't. You aren't very bright. When someone says "I don't think .500 season is completely out of the question," it doesn't mean "I see them being a .500 team."
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He said 74 wins was not very good and then proceeded to say he thought they would be surprisingly not awful, going further to say that they .500 wasn't out of the question.

Enscheff said:
He actually said he didn't see the Royals winning 90+ games. They won 89. Cameron was right, but Carp obviously didn't read anything other than the section header of the article. Shocking, I know.

He will now continue to argue semantics because that's all he has left.
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And I'm arguing semantics??? Dave Cameron HIMSELF admitted he was wrong!

"

While I ran through my thoughts on all 30 teams in the division previews, I had a few stray things that didn’t fit into the capsule format, so I’m tackling them here. A year ago, I wrote this same post, including gems like this one:

2. I believe the Royals are being overrated.

Let’s see if I can do better this year. On to the five things I believe about the 2015 season."

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/five-things-i-believe-about-the-2015-season/
 
dak said:
I'm generally a fan of Dave Cameron, but not sure I understand his point on this one. I didn't think we got the right value in the Kemp trade, but I didn't have any problem with the "philosophy" of the move. The Braves are team that has bottomed out in the rebuild process and has started to build back up to contend in 2017. I think its very appropriate to sign veteran stop gaps in that situation. Now the Markakis signing in Fall 2014 . . . that was not a good philosophy.
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I think the Markakis signing has turned out as bland as everyone predicted, but I'm fine with signing / acquiring veterans if it doesn't cost young players, draft picks, or restrict us from acquiring more young players. The Kemp acquisition falls under that same umbrella.

Now, when we are ready to compete, do I want Kemp and Markakis on the team? No, but we are still a long ways from that point.
 
chop2chip said:
I think the Markakis signing has turned out as bland as everyone predicted, but I'm fine with signing / acquiring veterans if it doesn't cost young players, draft picks, or restrict us from acquiring more young players. The Kemp acquisition falls under that same umbrella.

Now, when we are ready to compete, do I want Kemp and Markakis on the team? No, but we are still a long ways from that point.
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I would agree with this. However the narrative at the time of the sell off was that the Braves would be contending in very short order. Now maybe they 100% believed that at the time. And if that's true then the Markakis signing was not very smart. As predicted he's gotten worse and would be seen as a major liability for a team that plans to contend in 2017. Now that we know that's not the case then what the hell does it matter? Maybe they didn't believe we would contend in 2017 and said that as GM speak. Who knows.
 
thewupk said:
I would agree with this. However the narrative at the time of the sell off was that the Braves would be contending in very short order. Now maybe they 100% believed that at the time. And if that's true then the Markakis signing was not very smart. As predicted he's gotten worse and would be seen as a major liability for a team that plans to contend in 2017. Now that we know that's not the case then what the hell does it matter? Maybe they didn't believe we would contend in 2017 and said that as GM speak. Who knows.
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Mar kakis really just had a terrible May. Another hot month and he's going to be ahead of last year"s performance. A season is a season. Its not a bad inning or bad month.
 
thewupk said:
I would agree with this. However the narrative at the time of the sell off was that the Braves would be contending in very short order. Now maybe they 100% believed that at the time. And if that's true then the Markakis signing was not very smart. As predicted he's gotten worse and would be seen as a major liability for a team that plans to contend in 2017. Now that we know that's not the case then what the hell does it matter? Maybe they didn't believe we would contend in 2017 and said that as GM speak. Who knows.
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for the record, I think the Braves intended to be respectable while they rebuilt while leaving themselves options to accelerate things if it made sense. Markakis was a good citizen at a reasonable contract who might have been a buy low if he had a bounce back. he's hardly the reason why atlanta isnt good. don't think he's had much opportunity cost. pretty bland player for the grief he gets.
 
Southcack77 said:
for the record, I think the Braves intended to be respectable while they rebuilt while leaving themselves options to accelerate things if it made sense. Markakis was a good citizen at a reasonable contract who might have been a buy low if he had a bounce back. he's hardly the reason why atlanta isnt good. don't think he's had much opportunity cost. pretty bland player for the grief he gets.
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I agree with this. For all the angst, Markakis being on the team is pretty inconsequential. Not a lot of money. A respectable name. Didn't really affect the rebuild one way or the other. I seriously doubt he will be an impediment going forward. Bland is the right word. Didn't help much or hurt much.
 
Southcack77 said:
Mar kakis really just had a terrible May. Another hot month and he's going to be ahead of last year"s performance. A season is a season. Its not a bad inning or bad month.
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It's possible. Still he's at 0.8 WAR (with improved defense!) for the season. I'm sure the Braves expected more.
 
Southcack77 said:
Mar kakis really just had a terrible May. Another hot month and he's going to be ahead of last year"s performance. A season is a season. Its not a bad inning or bad month.
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He was pretty bad in June as well so you could just as easily say he's only really had a good April and July.
 
gilesfan said:
He was pretty bad in June as well so you could just as easily say he's only really had a good April and July.
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The OBP wasn't super, but he did hit .280.

May is pretty much the outlier in every respect. He certainly could have another month like that, but I don't really see that as the direction he is trending. He looks pretty good at the plate right now.
 
rico43 said:
McCann will turn 35 in February of 2019.
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The option year of 2019 is the only drawback with acquiring Mac.

I don't think we'll be big players in the big free agency class as of 2019 as it may be the class that bumps up average salaries again, but I would like to have some cash to play with to acquire the forgotten guys of the class.
 
Wonder how available Kevin Plawecki is. He's killing it in AAA, and is supposed to be very good defensively.
 
Chico said:
The option year of 2019 is the only drawback with acquiring Mac.

I don't think we'll be big players in the big free agency class as of 2019 as it may be the class that bumps up average salaries again, but I would like to have some cash to play with to acquire the forgotten guys of the class.
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The option isn't much to worry about. The only way that option will vest is if he's still playing well, in which case we should happy that we have that option. He'll have to have 1,000 PAs between 17-18, catch 90 games in 2018, and not be on the DL at the end of the 2018 season.
 
Carp said:
The option isn't much to worry about. The only way that option will vest is if he's still playing well, in which case we should happy that we have that option. He'll have to have 1,000 PAs between 17-18, catch 90 games in 2018, and not be on the DL at the end of the 2018 season.
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That's right. But I think he might request that the option be converted to a player option in exchange for his waiving the no trade clause. I'd still do Muk for Mac under those terms.
 
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