Jecki Lon Memorial Star Wars Thread
- Thread starter zitothebrave
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zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
No, she was throwing bows.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
I'm not saying she's inconsequential. But she could be a vehicle for the plot, not the main character. Again, call her Leia, Han, Obi Wan, whatever. But what if it's a redirect. What if again it's about the Skywalker family via Ben Solo, and what if Finn is related somehow to Mace Windu? There's ways it can go. I think Rey is Luke's daughter because he's a grey Jedi but that's just me. I think this is better than bringing Palpatine into the mix. It's not impossible, but it goes back to what people didn't like about the prequels. Anakin being a miracle birth is a classic thing people hate.
The most logical way to do it is have Rey being Luke's kid. The Episodes are the Skywalker Saga. Rey is the main character therefore it should be obvious that she is a Skywalker of some kind. Since Leia already has a kid then that just leaves Luke. The rest of the characters (Poe, Finn, Hux, etc) aren't going to be tied directly to any of the pre-existing characters. That would make the story small in scope if everyone started being related to everyone previously. The only exception I feel would be Snoke who I feel has some connection to Palps or at least the Empire in some way. And they will likely retcon it in flashbacks in Ep8 or 9. The obvious scenario will have him be another side apprentice that never had the chance to take the forefront. It's been established in the PT and now the comics that Palps had several apprentices at various times of his reign.
Still wonder about rumors of Finn-Lando relation.
Same as the rumors of Finn-Windu. Another black character in Star Wars? Must be related! They are too smart to pigeon hole themselves there. You will see the Episodes follow the Skywalker line and introduce various characters to help and oppose them. The side stories will further expand the universe and be about various time periods/characters that are linked to the main overall story but would otherwise serve as background noise to the Skywalker Saga.
I'm curious about the rumored Finn-Poe relationship.
Hope Star Wars doesn't go that route.
Tapate50
Well-known member
Posted this in Movie Thread, but maybe this is a much better place for it?
I didn't get through all of Star Wars Force Awakens last night, but am I way off to think this whole story has been done by SW before? Its the same stuff, just regurgitated. Brutal.
Plot line (loosely)
Likable Droid contains info
Likable Droid has to get back to rebel base (name of rebels changed do disguise the plot similarities)
Likable Droid goes through wacky route to get back to rebel\resistance base
Plot shifts to dusty planet and downtrodden character we don't know
Get to know characters plight as insignificant on current planet
Start to realize character might be more significant on a grand scale when empire comes across likable droid with this character
Character and droid avoid empire and leave planet
Character starts to realize force powers
A jedi goes into hiding (luke instead of Yoda\OWK)
Guy dressed in ST outfit busts out Rebel\Resistant fighter off of Empire\First Order ship.
FO and empire are exactly the same thing, flying exactly the same ships, dressed almost exactly the same, acting like Germans just like in the previous movies just calling themselves something different. Makes no sense, and comes across REALLY weak. Its awful.
Guy dresses in black that wants to get Skywalker.
Guy heavily invested by family in Jedi ways turns against them.
Han Solo and Chewy go to a bar.
Empire, sorry, First Order shows up to bar.
First order built a planet weapon without anyone knowing that looks basically like a butt, but is just a bigger death star. Are people not watching out for planet killing weapons being built these days? After two death stars?
Plans are made shoot the rebel planet and they find out just in time.
Rebels launch attack to save themselves as planet killer takes aim at them.
Thats where I stopped watching and went to bed. Will finish tonight.
This is just lazy. No way around it.
I didn't get through all of Star Wars Force Awakens last night, but am I way off to think this whole story has been done by SW before? Its the same stuff, just regurgitated. Brutal.
Plot line (loosely)
Likable Droid contains info
Likable Droid has to get back to rebel base (name of rebels changed do disguise the plot similarities)
Likable Droid goes through wacky route to get back to rebel\resistance base
Plot shifts to dusty planet and downtrodden character we don't know
Get to know characters plight as insignificant on current planet
Start to realize character might be more significant on a grand scale when empire comes across likable droid with this character
Character and droid avoid empire and leave planet
Character starts to realize force powers
A jedi goes into hiding (luke instead of Yoda\OWK)
Guy dressed in ST outfit busts out Rebel\Resistant fighter off of Empire\First Order ship.
FO and empire are exactly the same thing, flying exactly the same ships, dressed almost exactly the same, acting like Germans just like in the previous movies just calling themselves something different. Makes no sense, and comes across REALLY weak. Its awful.
Guy dresses in black that wants to get Skywalker.
Guy heavily invested by family in Jedi ways turns against them.
Han Solo and Chewy go to a bar.
Empire, sorry, First Order shows up to bar.
First order built a planet weapon without anyone knowing that looks basically like a butt, but is just a bigger death star. Are people not watching out for planet killing weapons being built these days? After two death stars?
Plans are made shoot the rebel planet and they find out just in time.
Rebels launch attack to save themselves as planet killer takes aim at them.
Thats where I stopped watching and went to bed. Will finish tonight.
This is just lazy. No way around it.
Funny you mention this. Thewupk and I talked about this. This wasn't paying homage to the older movies this was blatantly recycling old material. Wupk said it's to play it safe and bring people back to old glory.
I'm excited for Rogue One because this is first original Star Wars movie in 11 years.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Actually the reality is that TFA is more of a bastardization of the first 3 movies put together. Basically it was a way to tell people that this wasn't gonna be the prequels. Sure it has a lot of similarities to the original, but it's intentional, it's to bring about familiarity after the jarring changes of the prequels.
TFA succeeds in that and brings in new loveable characters.
As far as comparing them.
1. Yup, droids get information. That's pretty much central to Star Wars canon.
2. Obviously, where else would they go to, the enemy base?
3. Not really. R2 left a destroyer to go to Tatooine to find Obi Wan Kenobi. BB8 was basically hiding until he was picked up. Different scenario
4. NOpe, TFA was already on that planet. The main theme of the beginning of the film is Finn's desire to escape and Rey's desire to stay, Jakku acts as the conduit for that..
5. Nope. Rey wanted to stay, Luke wanted to leave. I mean there are similarities for sure but this is a stretch.
6. Nope, Rey's scale isn't really known until the third act.
7. Third act, Luke never realized force powers before Obi-Wan's training either. Different interactions between the 2 with the Force.
8. Classic Star Wars trope. ANd we don't actually konw that Luke went into hiding. It's very very likely if you read between the lines that Han was talking about himself going into exile because of his failures as a father to Ben, not that Luke went out, it's heavily hinted that Luke's actual mission was to find the original Jedi Temple, not to go into exile.
9. Don't see how this is comparable. In ANH Luke and Han use disguises to escape, in TFA Finn is a storm trooper who can't deal with the horrors of the the First Order. Only comparable is that storm trooper uniforms are used to escort someone not in uniform, but the Chewy escort plan failed, the Poe escort plan worked.
10. It comes across as weak because we don't know how the first order came to rise. There are hints as to what may cause it to rise being that it was Imperial officers operating in the outer rim and further who found that the Empire failed and want to take it over. I'd argue that there is a stark difference between the 2, it's like comparing the Nazi Army with the SS. One is more fanatical than the other and the first order certainly appears more fanatical than the Empire was. Though we won't know until we get to the end of the trilogy.
11. Different. If you watch ESB, Vader (the subordinate) convinces Sidious that Luke would be a huge asset if he turns. The Emperor's orders are clear, convert Skywalker or kill him. In the case of TFA Snoke doesn't want Skywalker back knowing the power of a Jedi would have on the Resistance, aside from showing he's more powerful, I have no doubt that Kylo doesn't care about Luke. He cared about Han.
12. Not sure what that means in either scenario.
13. Yup, that's where a smuggler would go.
14. Nope. Empire occupied Mos Eisley, First Order got word of the droid and attacked Maz's Palace.
15. There's a reason no one knew about Starkiller base for the most part, it was in Unknown Space. Basically beyond the Outer Rim. It may be hard to understand this if you don't know Star Wars, but the majority of the events in the Star Wars universe take place in the Outer Rim or Inner Rim, where the rebellion against the Empire is able to exist. Sort of akin to the AMerican Revolution where the British Dominated the Cities and held strong there but got wrecked by the outside resistance. And the First Order knew they were building a bigger Death Star, to them Starkiller was supposed to be the culmination of all the Empire's work on the Death Star and then advanced further.
16. Actually these are kind of similar. Rebel base was hidden from baddies, baddies gain access to where the planet is by tailing the good guys. In ANH they did it by tracing the Millennium Falcon before it left the Death Star after it was clear Leia wouldn't give up the location (lied and said the base was on Dantooine) in TFA they tailed a reconnaissance pilot. So there you have a valid man they're really similar poin
17. Yup, wouldn't you also try to save yourself?
To me there's an important distinction between OT and TFA, it's the construction of the main characters. It's also the superior Direction. Lucas had an amazing idea and his creativity is insane, but technically speaking he's a poor director. Abrams isn't a godly director but he's certainly better than Lucas, and to me that's where the film is better than all but ESB of the others. Lucas directed or basically directed the other 5 films. Samething with screenplay, he did it or was the final say on the screenplay of the others. ESB was the Star Wars film Lucas had the least to do with and it coincidentally was the best and most iconic.
TFA succeeds in that and brings in new loveable characters.
As far as comparing them.
1. Yup, droids get information. That's pretty much central to Star Wars canon.
2. Obviously, where else would they go to, the enemy base?
3. Not really. R2 left a destroyer to go to Tatooine to find Obi Wan Kenobi. BB8 was basically hiding until he was picked up. Different scenario
4. NOpe, TFA was already on that planet. The main theme of the beginning of the film is Finn's desire to escape and Rey's desire to stay, Jakku acts as the conduit for that..
5. Nope. Rey wanted to stay, Luke wanted to leave. I mean there are similarities for sure but this is a stretch.
6. Nope, Rey's scale isn't really known until the third act.
7. Third act, Luke never realized force powers before Obi-Wan's training either. Different interactions between the 2 with the Force.
8. Classic Star Wars trope. ANd we don't actually konw that Luke went into hiding. It's very very likely if you read between the lines that Han was talking about himself going into exile because of his failures as a father to Ben, not that Luke went out, it's heavily hinted that Luke's actual mission was to find the original Jedi Temple, not to go into exile.
9. Don't see how this is comparable. In ANH Luke and Han use disguises to escape, in TFA Finn is a storm trooper who can't deal with the horrors of the the First Order. Only comparable is that storm trooper uniforms are used to escort someone not in uniform, but the Chewy escort plan failed, the Poe escort plan worked.
10. It comes across as weak because we don't know how the first order came to rise. There are hints as to what may cause it to rise being that it was Imperial officers operating in the outer rim and further who found that the Empire failed and want to take it over. I'd argue that there is a stark difference between the 2, it's like comparing the Nazi Army with the SS. One is more fanatical than the other and the first order certainly appears more fanatical than the Empire was. Though we won't know until we get to the end of the trilogy.
11. Different. If you watch ESB, Vader (the subordinate) convinces Sidious that Luke would be a huge asset if he turns. The Emperor's orders are clear, convert Skywalker or kill him. In the case of TFA Snoke doesn't want Skywalker back knowing the power of a Jedi would have on the Resistance, aside from showing he's more powerful, I have no doubt that Kylo doesn't care about Luke. He cared about Han.
12. Not sure what that means in either scenario.
13. Yup, that's where a smuggler would go.
14. Nope. Empire occupied Mos Eisley, First Order got word of the droid and attacked Maz's Palace.
15. There's a reason no one knew about Starkiller base for the most part, it was in Unknown Space. Basically beyond the Outer Rim. It may be hard to understand this if you don't know Star Wars, but the majority of the events in the Star Wars universe take place in the Outer Rim or Inner Rim, where the rebellion against the Empire is able to exist. Sort of akin to the AMerican Revolution where the British Dominated the Cities and held strong there but got wrecked by the outside resistance. And the First Order knew they were building a bigger Death Star, to them Starkiller was supposed to be the culmination of all the Empire's work on the Death Star and then advanced further.
16. Actually these are kind of similar. Rebel base was hidden from baddies, baddies gain access to where the planet is by tailing the good guys. In ANH they did it by tracing the Millennium Falcon before it left the Death Star after it was clear Leia wouldn't give up the location (lied and said the base was on Dantooine) in TFA they tailed a reconnaissance pilot. So there you have a valid man they're really similar poin
17. Yup, wouldn't you also try to save yourself?
To me there's an important distinction between OT and TFA, it's the construction of the main characters. It's also the superior Direction. Lucas had an amazing idea and his creativity is insane, but technically speaking he's a poor director. Abrams isn't a godly director but he's certainly better than Lucas, and to me that's where the film is better than all but ESB of the others. Lucas directed or basically directed the other 5 films. Samething with screenplay, he did it or was the final say on the screenplay of the others. ESB was the Star Wars film Lucas had the least to do with and it coincidentally was the best and most iconic.
Tapate50
Well-known member
I mean its not verbatim as ZTB tries to infer below, but a ton of plot points are basically the exact same premise. It is tired. I've seen the first three at least a dozen times (anyone remember they used to play back to back to back around Christmas time on USA network or TNT?) and don't need any type of refresh of what happened again.
Instead of new material we basically drove down the same highway, just in Winter instead of Summer.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Sorry but you're wrong. It was a vessel to create a new part of the Galaxy and new characters. Realize that very infrequently in Canon have we gone into the Unknown regions.
Also realize that not since ANH have they had to introduce as many new main characters. Anakin, Sidious, and Obi-wan were all in the OT. Only new main characters were Padme, Windu, and Jar Jar. Jar Jar being probably the worst character in the history of Star Wars. Padme sucked. Windu was good but only because of Samuel Jackson, the writing for him was weak, he's just a bad mother****er. In TFA they successfully introduced 5 new characters that people loved, Kylo Ren, Poe, Finn, Rey, and BB8. When has that happened in Star Wars? ANH and that's it. And most characters in ANH were only flesh deep, they weren't fleshed out at all until Empire and sometimes even Jedi. And that doesn't factor in other characters that people liked a lot like Hux, Maz, etc. The familiar storytelling makes it easier to worry too much about the story and worry more about the characters.
It's the same movie.
I explained this to a friend as...
Leia uses R2d2/BB8 to deliver an important message to old Jedi Obi/Luke to save the Rebellion/Resistance.
We find a teenager named Luke/Rey on a desolate desert planet called Tattoine/Jakku
Village is slaughtered looking for the droid/message.
To show the full power of the Empire/First Order, a death star/death planet is used to destroy the Rebellion/Resistance's backed planet.
The rebellion/resistance must destroy the death star/death planet before their home base is destroyed, using fighter pilots. Also we have to turn the shield off/tractor beam.
The old guy named Obi-wan/Han Solo dies while all of the protagonists including Luke/Rey watch to the Sith Lord.
We have to go to a cafe with a bunch of aliens to find transport.
Han offers a job to Rey the way he did to Luke.
Rey/Luke must now find the old Jedi Master named Luke/Yoda to learn more about the force.
Just hilarious how zeets tries to justify the blatantly obviously recycling of plot lines and details as "universe building".
Zeets has an obvious bias against Lucas and Lucas' prequels, and he overcompensates by loving FA so much to get the taste of the prequels out of his mouth.
FA is just nostalgic recycling. Thus I'm looking forward to Rogue One, as it's the first real original Star Wars movie we've had in 11 years.
Zeets has an obvious bias against Lucas and Lucas' prequels, and he overcompensates by loving FA so much to get the taste of the prequels out of his mouth.
FA is just nostalgic recycling. Thus I'm looking forward to Rogue One, as it's the first real original Star Wars movie we've had in 11 years.
I agree.
I just hope that episode 8 doesn't end up like Empire. I'm afraid that it might.
With all the applause that Thrawn got at Star Wars Europe I hope that he can be worked in episode 8.
CyYoung31
Shift Leader
It would be hard for 8 to be like Empire when TFA made the First Order out to be a complete joke. How can they make us fear them like we feared the Empire in ESB?
Finn was over the top. Funny at times but I'm not quite sure if Boyega was overacting or Abrams wanted him to be that absurd.
I found Kylo somewhat interesting and Rey for sure. Chewy was interesting also tbis is probably the first movie where he had more depth.
Well its rumored to be titled Fall of the Resistance. So it implies to me either Leia/Luke die or Rey gets turned to the darkside. They're definitely setting up Kylo's turn to the lightside for later on.