2016 Postseason Thread

Still like the Indians chances better, but they need to close this thing out Tuesday. If I'm the Indians, I don't want this series going to Game 7.
 
I don't want to belabor the point, but one can argue that if Francona is going to use Miller in high-leverage situations, he should have been in immediately last night after Bryant hit his HR. But, of course, Miller pitched two innings the night before in a game he wasn't needed.

I don't want to speak for gilesfan, but I think that's the point we were trying to make Saturday night. Francona can be as aggressive as he wants to be, but aggression tends to make one overplay their hand.
 
50PoundHead said:
I don't want to belabor the point, but one can argue that if Francona is going to use Miller in high-leverage situations, he should have been in immediately last night after Bryant hit his HR. But, of course, Miller pitched two innings the night before in a game he wasn't needed.

I don't want to speak for gilesfan, but I think that's the point we were trying to make Saturday night. Francona can be as aggressive as he wants to be, but aggression tends to make one overplay their hand.
Click to expand...

That's fair, though my guess is that even if Francona was willing to use Miller, he probably didn't want to take Bauer out after just 3 innings, although he did take him out after just 4.

But instead of looking back and saying Miller shouldn't have thrown so much in Game 4, I would just say that instead he should have been used again in Game 5. He had thrown 17 and 27 pitches the two nights before that. That's not nothing, but it's also not something I think would have affected his ability to get 2-3 outs in Game 5.
 
smootness said:
That's fair, though my guess is that even if Francona was willing to use Miller, he probably didn't want to take Bauer out after just 3 innings, although he did take him out after just 4.

But instead of looking back and saying Miller shouldn't have thrown so much in Game 4, I would just say that instead he should have been used again in Game 5. He had thrown 17 and 27 pitches the two nights before that. That's not nothing, but it's also not something I think would have affected his ability to get 2-3 outs in Game 5.
Click to expand...

Francona took out Tomlin in the 5th on Friday night and a win Sunday ends it, which would seem to warrant the aggressive approach Francona has been employing to this point. I think the point that gilesfan (again I think I'm understanding him) and I are trying to make is that the game was well in hand on Saturday night and that set up an elimination game (to be followed by an off-day Monday) and that all arrows should have been in the quiver on Sunday night. Having Miller in even an "iffy" condition was short-sighted in my opinion.
 
50PoundHead said:
Francona took out Tomlin in the 5th on Friday night and a win Sunday ends it, which would seem to warrant the aggressive approach Francona has been employing to this point. I think the point that gilesfan (again I think I'm understanding him) and I are trying to make is that the game was well in hand on Saturday night and that set up an elimination game (to be followed by an off-day Monday) and that all arrows should have been in the quiver on Sunday night. Having Miller in even an "iffy" condition was short-sighted in my opinion.
Click to expand...

And I think that's a fine opinion to have. It was the fact that he called it 'stupid' that I took issue with.

And I don't even necessarily disagree with questioning the decision. I just understand why Francona did it and don't think it overextended Miller...which is why I would have pitched him again, at least to a couple batters, in Game 5.

I get the odds on the 6-run lead, but if that game happens to fall into the 1% of games that you ultimately lose with that lead, you don't get to say, 'Oh well, did the best we could, it'll work itself out.' Even at those odds, if you can lower them even more, it may be worth it.
 
smootness said:
And I think that's a fine opinion to have. It was the fact that he called it 'stupid' that I took issue with.

And I don't even necessarily disagree with questioning the decision. I just understand why Francona did it and don't think it overextended Miller...which is why I would have pitched him again, at least to a couple batters, in Game 5.

I get the odds on the 6-run lead, but if that game happens to fall into the 1% of games that you ultimately lose with that lead, you don't get to say, 'Oh well, did the best we could, it'll work itself out.' Even at those odds, if you can lower them even more, it may be worth it.
Click to expand...

I think the thing about Saturday night is that he could have used Miller later had the situation warranted it. What I disagreed with was the fact he threw him out there in a very low-leverage situation. There are times when managers get a little goofy and try to prove a point with their guys and we may be seeing that at some level with Francona's use of Miller (and maybe we aren't). This isn't about creating folk heroes, it's about winning the World Series.
 
Look, these managers aren't the dumbest in the league by any means. The bar is low when it comes to the good ole boy network. I am tired of hearing so and so was a "guy" call. In the postseason, you want to maximize the opportunities your good players have to make plays and have your best pitchers in high leverage situations (assuming they arent gassed like a starter in the 8th or something). Having said that, I take issue with a number of things:

Roberto Perez batting 7th for some reason
Tyler Naquin batting 8th

50- you have summed it up pretty well. Bauer has been the blackhole for the Indians. Even if you aren't taking him out after the Bryant homer, why not a couple hitters after that. It was the highest leverage spot with the Cubs at bat and ultimately cost them the game.

On the Cubs side, you absolutely have to hit for David Ross with the bases loaded and 1 out there. What better situation to have Kyle Schwarber in the game knowing Miller wasn't warmed up? Heck, I would have given strong consideration for hitting for Lester as well, but I can see the reasoning in leaving him in. (def. would have if Cubs were down 1)

Maddon did do a good job getting Chapman in when the game was on the line.

I don't understand why Maddon insists on playing David Ross vs. righties unless both Montero and Contreras are absolute butchers behind the plate. I also don't understand why he doesn't use Schwarber as a pinch hitter in key spots.
 
50PoundHead said:
I think the thing about Saturday night is that he could have used Miller later had the situation warranted it. What I disagreed with was the fact he threw him out there in a very low-leverage situation. There are times when managers get a little goofy and try to prove a point with their guys and we may be seeing that at some level with Francona's use of Miller (and maybe we aren't). This isn't about creating folk heroes, it's about winning the World Series.
Click to expand...

I feel confident Francona's goal is not to create a folk hero out of Miller.
 
I was thinking last night, if Lester would completely choke if a guy tried to steal home.. Basically take off as soon as he comes set and see what he does.
 
gilesfan said:
Look, these managers aren't the dumbest in the league by any means. The bar is low when it comes to the good ole boy network. I am tired of hearing so and so was a "guy" call. In the postseason, you want to maximize the opportunities your good players have to make plays and have your best pitchers in high leverage situations (assuming they arent gassed like a starter in the 8th or something). Having said that, I take issue with a number of things:

Roberto Perez batting 7th for some reason
Tyler Naquin batting 8th

50- you have summed it up pretty well. Bauer has been the blackhole for the Indians. Even if you aren't taking him out after the Bryant homer, why not a couple hitters after that. It was the highest leverage spot with the Cubs at bat and ultimately cost them the game.

On the Cubs side, you absolutely have to hit for David Ross with the bases loaded and 1 out there. What better situation to have Kyle Schwarber in the game knowing Miller wasn't warmed up? Heck, I would have given strong consideration for hitting for Lester as well, but I can see the reasoning in leaving him in. (def. would have if Cubs were down 1)

Maddon did do a good job getting Chapman in when the game was on the line.

I don't understand why Maddon insists on playing David Ross vs. righties unless both Montero and Contreras are absolute butchers behind the plate. I also don't understand why he doesn't use Schwarber as a pinch hitter in key spots.
Click to expand...

I agree with a lot of what you say. My primary eyeball-rolling is over roster construction more than anything else. Schwarber will DH in the AL parks, but he is next to useless in the NL park if Maddon doesn't use him in key positions. At some level, the double-switch still seems to mystify Maddon and I don't see how he isn't called out--especially by folks enthralled with deep analysis--for pinch-hitting for Ross with 2 outs and no one on. If he's pulling Lester and going to insert a new catcher, why waste a hitter in the situation that is least likely to produce a run. Ross might step into one.

But the roster construction is really odd. Cleveland has a bunch of pitchers they don't appear they are going to use. With injuries, there cupboard is a little bare, but I'm surprised they didn't go out and try to find a LOOGY and a late-game defensive replacement for the Napoli/Santana first base duo. Those guys are dime-a-dozen around the deadline. For the Cubs, I don't know why La Stella isn't on the roster instead of Almora (and as most of you know, I'm not a big La Stella fan) or one of the pitchers the Cubs aren't going to use.

Ross is Lester's catcher and I've always found the notion of "personal catcher" to be nigh on ridiculous. Maddux insisted on his own guy and I felt the same way when Charlie O'Brian or Paul Bako was out there instead of Javy Lopez.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I was thinking last night, if Lester would completely choke if a guy tried to steal home.. Basically take off as soon as he comes set and see what he does.
Click to expand...

It seems to only be a problem throwing to 1st. I would think he'd be fine throwing home. Heck, he could just throw a normal pitch.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top