Interesting Note On MLBTR...

C

clvclv

<B>"What is a clvclv"</B>
About the Dodgers being interested in Logan Forsythe...

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/11/dodgers-interested-in-logan-forsythe.html

Not that I'm predicting a deal for an "Ace" (more than before), but I'd think a trade of Forsythe would at least improve our chances of dealing for Archer anyway. Albies would then become almost a slam-dunk as a potential piece in a deal for him. If they viewed Acuna as a replacement for Kiermaier within a couple seasons and someone like Riley as a replacement for Longoria along the same timeline, I don't see anyone who lines up as a better suitor for Archer (or Longoria, for that matter) than the Braves.
 
clvclv said:
About the Dodgers being interested in Logan Forsythe...

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/11/dodgers-interested-in-logan-forsythe.html

Not that I'm predicting a deal for an "Ace" (more than before), but I'd think a trade of Forsythe would at least improve our chances of dealing for Archer anyway. Albies would then become almost a slam-dunk as a potential piece in a deal for him. If they viewed Acuna as a replacement for Kiermaier within a couple seasons and someone like Riley as a replacement for Longoria along the same timeline, I don't see anyone who lines up as a better suitor for Archer (or Longoria, for that matter) than the Braves.
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The Braves minor league hitting is overall fairly weak and your proposal trades away 3 of the top 5 hitters in the whole system. At some point, the Braves need to develop offense. I would rather see pitchers go since that was the FO concept to begin with...
 
Horsehide Harry said:
The Braves minor league hitting is overall fairly weak and your proposal trades away 3 of the top 5 hitters in the whole system. At some point, the Braves need to develop offense. I would rather see pitchers go since that was the FO concept to begin with...
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So "Not that I'm predicting a deal for an 'Ace'" didn't register at all?
 
A deal of Albies, Newcomb, Acuna, Mallex, Riley, and Soroka for Archer and Longoria makes more sense than a deal for Sale and Frazier imo.
 
Hudson2 said:
A deal of Albies, Newcomb, Acuna, Mallex, Riley, and Soroka for Archer and Longoria makes more sense than a deal for Sale and Frazier imo.
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I know it's probably unreasonable, but I'd be super pissed if we dealt Acuna. He might be third on my untouchable list behind Swanson and Maitan.
 
I'd hate to deal that much talent but it would give us an ace and a stud middle of the order bat at 3b both controlled for the next 5 years.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
The Braves minor league hitting is overall fairly weak and your proposal trades away 3 of the top 5 hitters in the whole system. At some point, the Braves need to develop offense. I would rather see pitchers go since that was the FO concept to begin with...
Click to expand...

Like I said in a different thread, during the late-1980s/early-1990s rebuild we had a set of hitters in place and another group in the pipeline when we put the finishing touches on things. We don't have anything close to that right now and we shouldn't be sending our best hitting prospects somewhere else at this point.
 
50PoundHead said:
Like I said in a different thread, during the late-1980s/early-1990s rebuild we had a set of hitters in place and another group in the pipeline when we put the finishing touches on things. We don't have anything close to that right now and we shouldn't be sending our best hitting prospects somewhere else at this point.
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unless it fills our need for a middle of the order bat....like the Peraza trade
 
50PoundHead said:
Like I said in a different thread, during the late-1980s/early-1990s rebuild we had a set of hitters in place and another group in the pipeline when we put the finishing touches on things. We don't have anything close to that right now and we shouldn't be sending our best hitting prospects somewhere else at this point.
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Agree completely.

The late 80's, early 90's team had waves of both pitching and hitting in the minor leagues. This was built on the foundation of a five year rebuild. You had Gant, Justice, Blauser in the high minors/major leagues with CJ, Klesko, Javy, etc. as the next wave and AJ coming up behind. The pitching had Glavine, Smoltz, P Smith, Merker with the next wave of Avery, Wohlers, etc. in pitching.

The current Braves have the pitching wave lined up, but not the hitting wave. That's why I think making a move in 2017 is premature.
 
nsacpi said:
unless it fills our need for a middle of the order bat....like the Peraza trade
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That was a "reload" mistake. The only way Olivera EVER made any sense was for him to come in and immediately contribute at a high level.

Trading Peraza was not bad in itself since the Braves assumedly knew they had Albies and the internal valuation of Peraza wasn't that high. But trading him for a ML ready player (supposedly) when anyone living in reality could look at the fact that the team AFTER shipping out a ton of talent wasn't going to be good for several years at least, was just wishful thinking on the part of the FO, something they can't afford to do.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
The Braves minor league hitting is overall fairly weak and your proposal trades away 3 of the top 5 hitters in the whole system. At some point, the Braves need to develop offense. I would rather see pitchers go since that was the FO concept to begin with...
Click to expand...

We have "some" offense. What we need is difference makers. And Archer and Longoria fit the bill.
 
Longo is million times more reliable that Olivera ever was. lol I don't think I could possibly see Coppy giving that much talent up, but we would be stacked.
 
PurpleBrave said:
Archer & Longoria are horribly over rated. I hope we don't give up the farm for either of them
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I'm really interested in hearing about how a 4-6 WAR player at third base with an extremely club friendly contract is overrated (Longoria)...

Let's look at Archer now... had 3 WAR last year which was considered a down year.. 5 WAR the year before signed to an even BETTER contract.

How exactly are these guys overrated?
 
zbhargrove said:
I'm really interested in hearing about how a 4-6 WAR player at third base with an extremely club friendly contract is overrated (Longoria)...

Let's look at Archer now... had 3 WAR last year which was considered a down year.. 5 WAR the year before signed to an even BETTER contract.

How exactly are these guys overrated?
Click to expand...

BUT ARCHER'S ERA AND WIN-LOSS RECORD LAST YEAR!!
 
zbhargrove said:
I'm really interested in hearing about how a 4-6 WAR player at third base with an extremely club friendly contract is overrated (Longoria)...

Let's look at Archer now... had 3 WAR last year which was considered a down year.. 5 WAR the year before signed to an even BETTER contract.

How exactly are these guys overrated?
Click to expand...

Longoria's OBP has steady declined over the last 5-6 years. His power last year was a blip. The fact you say he is a 6 WAR player proves that he is over rated. He is not a 6 WAR player anymore. He is a 3-4 at best. In the NL, he will be about .260 and give you 70r 25hr 80rbi next year. Next year he may be good, but the guy is regressing. He's also signed through 2022. He is owed 100 million over the next 6 seasons. Not exactly Bobby Bonilla, but not an "extremely friendly" contract either for a declining player. Fangraphs even advocates that the Rays deal him now.

Archer is a good pitcher, but struggles with his command. He is not the 2.90 era pitcher he was two years ago, but he's also not a 4.00 era pitcher he was last year. Probably in the range of a 3.50/3.60 era pitcher...so in the range of Kevin Gausman, Ian Kennedy & Marco Estrada. There were also concerns last season that Archer was hurt. With the way he pitches and since he is so slider reliant, he is a Tommy John surgery waiting to happen.

In a post above, someone stated about giving up Albies, Newcomb, Acuna, Mallex, Riley, and Soroka for Longoria & Archer. I don't know if that was a joke, but that would be highway robbery. Given what the price would be for both of them, I don't want any part of either.
 
zbhargrove said:
I'm really interested in hearing about how a 4-6 WAR player at third base with an extremely club friendly contract is overrated (Longoria)...

Let's look at Archer now... had 3 WAR last year which was considered a down year.. 5 WAR the year before signed to an even BETTER contract.

How exactly are these guys overrated?
Click to expand...

The last 3 years, Longoria has been a 3-4.5 WAR player (depending on which site you use), not 4-6 WAR.

BR and Fangraphs vary on Archer as well. Fangraphs has him where you said he is...but BR has him as basically a 2-2.5 WAR player 3 of the last 4 years, with 2015's 4.3 being the aberration. I don't want to add these guys because while they are certainly both good players, and Archer has room left to grow, their value on the open market may be higher than their actual value. We would probably have to give up way too much to acquire them.
 
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