Red Sox Aquire Sale

bravesfanMatt said:
I think the Kopech/Newcomb debate is pretty good one. they are similar in value. I think Kopech has control problems that exceed Newks and he will ultimately end up as a high leverage closer, where I see Newk probably making a rotation.
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I think Kopech depends on how long you want to give him in the minors to find other pitches of ML quality to go with the FB. I would expect the Chisox to give him at least 2 years to prove out as a starter before pulling the plug and making him a reliever. Curt Schilling threw his FB about 80% of the time but had ++ control of it so with the velocity and control he didn't need a lot of other pitches. Newcomb probably also needs something approaching 2 years before he'll be ready.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I think Kopech depends on how long you want to give him in the minors to find other pitches of ML quality to go with the FB. I would expect the Chisox to give him at least 2 years to prove out as a starter before pulling the plug and making him a reliever. Curt Schilling threw his FB about 80% of the time but had ++ control of it so with the velocity and control he didn't need a lot of other pitches. Newcomb probably also needs something approaching 2 years before he'll be ready.
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yeah, I wasn't saying they would move him now. Crap, he is dominating lower levels. Let him roll until he hits a wall. I think Newk is more 1 - 1.5 before ready. If he repeats his struggles next season, then he will be out of top 100 and pretty much a BP guy in my books. He will be playing in his 24 year old season and while that is not old, it is getting to a point of 'figuring it out' is probably not going to happen.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Moncada has similar value as Swanson but cost $62M to sign.

Newcomb is a Lefty but doesn't have the stuff of Kopech. I believe Kopech will be ranked ahead of Newcomb when the spring rankings come out (already #30 on MLB.com vs #47 for Newcomb). Basabe is at least a similar prospect to Acuna IF not better. The only thing Acuna has over Basabe right now is age. He may ultimately be the better prospect but he's certainly more of a current risk to implode. And the Cabrera/Diaz comp to me is pretty good. Both big FB guys who are straight relivers but Diaz has more of an idea where the ball is going to go while Cabrera has some ML experience.

Doesn't really matter in the end. Bottom line is: the Braves were never getting Sale for a hand full of magic beans.
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Kopech and Newcomb have similar ceilings, yet Kopech is in A ball while Newcomb is basically MLB ready. Not sure why MLB.Com dropped Newcomb 15 spots from his preseason ranking while shooting Kopech up 70 spots. But I would be willing to bet most other sites won't agree with that.

Acuna just outhit Basabe at the same level while also being younger. He's a virtual lock to be a top 100 prospect. There's zero way Basabe is a better prospect, even if their ceilings are similar.

And again, Cabrera is already having major league success. He is right now what Diaz has the potential to be. Yet he just completed A ball. Reliever prospects in A ball are not even in prospects really.
 
Carp said:
Kopech and Newcomb have similar ceilings, yet Kopech is in A ball while Newcomb is basically MLB ready. Not sure why MLB.Com dropped Newcomb 15 spots from his preseason ranking while shooting Kopech up 70 spots. But I would be willing to bet most other sites won't agree with that.

Acuna just outhit Basabe at the same level while also being younger. He's a virtual lock to be a top 100 prospect. There's zero way Basabe is a better prospect, even if their ceilings are similar.

And again, Cabrera is already having major league success. He is right now what Diaz has the potential to be. Yet he just completed A ball. Reliever prospects in A ball are not even in prospects really.
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Newcomb struggled a bit relatively. Kopech has been helium and just capped off an AFL tour.

Acuna outhit Basabe but in a very limited number of at bats. Look, I hope the guy is the next AJ, BUT I think some are getting carried away with him right now. If he plays 120-130 games next year at high A and puts up a .300/.350/.500 line, then you might be right. Right now he's an intriguing prospect who's been hurt a lot.

Diaz has better control, Cabrera has a tick better FB and ML experience but could kill somebody at any minute. Both could be high leverage relievers IF they find their control.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Newcomb struggled a bit relatively. Kopech has been helium and just capped off an AFL tour.

Acuna outhit Basabe but in a very limited number of at bats. Look, I hope the guy is the next AJ, BUT I think some are getting carried away with him right now. If he plays 120-130 games next year at high A and puts up a .300/.350/.500 line, then you might be right. Right now he's an intriguing prospect who's been hurt a lot.

Diaz has better control, Cabrera has a tick better FB and ML experience but could kill somebody at any minute. Both could be high leverage relievers IF they find their control.
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So Kopech's helium proves he's legit, but Acuna's helium means people are getting carried away?
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Newcomb struggled a bit relatively. Kopech has been helium and just capped off an AFL tour.

Acuna outhit Basabe but in a very limited number of at bats. Look, I hope the guy is the next AJ, BUT I think some are getting carried away with him right now. If he plays 120-130 games next year at high A and puts up a .300/.350/.500 line, then you might be right. Right now he's an intriguing prospect who's been hurt a lot.

Diaz has better control, Cabrera has a tick better FB and ML experience but could kill somebody at any minute. Both could be high leverage relievers IF they find their control.
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My point is not they these guys aren't similar types of prospects. It's that they are not currently valued the same as overll prospects. So equating these players based on value just isn't accurate, imo. Of course the overall package could still have been more enticing to the Chi-Sox depending on how much more valuable (if any) that they view Moncada over Swanson.
 
As much as I wanted Sale this is probably the best thing long term. I just hope another TOR is available if the arms don't develop like we hoped.
 
I guess we won't be getting Moncada for Teheran. We will just have to settle for Benintendi. Drats!
 
smootness said:
So Kopech's helium proves he's legit, but Acuna's helium means people are getting carried away?
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Kopech's helium is coming from a dominating performance at High A, then followed by a dominating AFL against some of the better prospects in baseball. 14.19 K per 9. 5 BB per 9. 1.04 Whip

Acuna's is coming from 148 Low A at bats, plus some winter league stuff.

Frankly, I don't understand why Acuna has so MUCH helium right now.

Don't get me wrong, I like Acune. I just think he needs to do a lot more to be considered one of the better prospects in baseball. I hope he does.
 
The only negative things I have ever heard about Acuna is that he got hurt. He is a legit 5 tool prospect. I know 170 at bats is a small sample but Acuna hit well before and after the injury. Not only did he come back but he hit even better when he came back. I think he could be a top 10 prospect in baseball next year.
 
cajunrevenge said:
The only negative things I have ever heard about Acuna is that he got hurt. He is a legit 5 tool prospect. I know 170 at bats is a small sample but Acuna hit well before and after the injury. Not only did he come back but he hit even better when he came back. I think he could be a top 10 prospect in baseball next year.
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Top 10 in baseball? PosiBraves assemble!!
 
GovClintonTyree said:
Shame on Cajun for showing the incorrect level of enthusiasm.
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The major difference in this deal is Moncada. We weren't willing to move Swanson(which was the right move) so of course we had no shot. But even if we offered Swanson, Moncada is the better prospect. That's not a knock on swanson at all
 
Enscheff said:
Top 10 in baseball? PosiBraves assemble!!
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The Fangraphs prospect writer said today Acuna is possibly in his top 50 right now. I think top 10 is pushing it, but if he goes out and dominates, the tools are there for it.
 
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