2016-2017 Off-Season Thread

thethe said:
If the player is a stud then I don't think it matters how much they are paid. What kills any team is paying crappy players (BJ / Uggla / KK) irregardless of what their salary figure is. Of course there's a threshold but I don't see how any team that cares about winning could value Quintana over sale. This isn't to disparage Quintana at all but Sale so far in his career is pitching like one of the best of all time.
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I agree.

Roster spot are as much of a resource as $ or prospects. Quintana is a special pitcher, but there is simply more pitchers like him than there are like Sale. This gets back at the relative value argument, but I think teams would pay a premium on the trade market for that 1 WAR difference between Sale and Quintana above and beyond the typical value of 1 WAR.
 
chop2chip said:
I agree.

Roster spot are as much of a resource as $ or prospects. Quintana is a special pitcher, but there is simply more pitchers like him than there are like Sale. This gets back at the relative value argument, but I think teams would pay a premium on the trade market for that 1 WAR difference between Sale and Quintana above and beyond the typical value of 1 WAR.
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You guys are selling Quintana very short.

Last 3 years, Chris Sale fWAR: 5.2, 6.2, 5.2

Last 3 years, Quintana fWAR: 5.1, 4.8, 4.8

Besides Sale's insane 2015, they are actually very similar. Quintana is younger, is under control for longer, and is less likely to blow his arm out.

Steamer projects 4.1 fWAR for Quintana and 4.7 for Sale... again, both elite.
 
zbhargrove said:
You guys are selling Quintana very short.

Last 3 years, Chris Sale fWAR: 5.2, 6.2, 5.2

Last 3 years, Quintana fWAR: 5.1, 4.8, 4.8

Besides Sale's insane 2015, they are actually very similar. Quintana is younger, is under control for longer, and is less likely to blow his arm out.

Steamer projects 4.1 fWAR for Quintana and 4.7 for Sale... again, both elite.
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Over the past 3 years Sale is 5th in fWAR. Quintana is 8th. Both are top pitchers in the game.
 
Sale has the ability to take over and dominate in the playoffs. That's what makes him special.

I do think Quintana will be a good get for someone though. He has tremendous value with the combination of his contract, his reliability, and the fact he's a lefty.

I do think we're talking to the Sox right now. I don't think we'll want to pony up the package, but I could see Albies having value to them with Moncada playing 3B. Having Albies, Moncada, and Anderson on the IF for the next 5 years would be a great start for their rebuild.

If I'm the White Sox I'm trying like hell to get Bregman from the Stros though, as Moncada has more value as a 2B. Moncada, Bregman, and Anderson would be perfect for them.
 
Chico said:
Sale has the ability to take over and dominate in the playoffs. That's what makes him special.

I do think Quintana will be a good get for someone though. He has tremendous value with the combination of his contract, his reliability, and the fact he's a lefty.

I do think we're talking to the Sox right now. I don't think we'll want to pony up the package, but I could see Albies having value to them with Moncada playing 3B. Having Albies, Moncada, and Anderson on the IF for the next 5 years would be a great start for their rebuild.

If I'm the White Sox I'm trying like hell to get Bregman from the Stros though, as Moncada has more value as a 2B. Moncada, Bregman, and Anderson would be perfect for them.
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Could you imagine that infield with Freeman and Swanson instead of Anderson and Abreu? Wet dream...
 
I'll say the same thing about the White Sox front office as I said about the Braves. It's not that hard to trade very valuable MLB assets for good prospects.

If it doesn't matter if you win it's not such a tough gig being a gm.

I'm still trying to get my head around why it's better to trade a #1 starter at below market contract for three years and a #2 starter with a below market contract for five years for prospects than it is to try and contend somewhere in that window.

But I'm no student of the white sox.
 
Southcack77 said:
I'll say the same thing about the White Sox front office as I said about the Braves. It's not that hard to trade very valuable MLB assets for good prospects.

If it doesn't matter if you win it's not such a tough gig being a gm.

I'm still trying to get my head around why it's better to trade a #1 starter at below market contract for three years and a #2 starter with a below market contract for five years for prospects than it is to try and contend somewhere in that window.

But I'm no student of the white sox.
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Quintana is controlled for 4 years, but your point still stands. A team with 2 Aces and Eaton under control for 3+ years at bargain rates certainly does seem like the sort of core you should try to win with.
 
Enscheff said:
Quintana is controlled for 4 years, but your point still stands. A team with 2 Aces and Eaton under control for 3+ years at bargain rates certainly does seem like the sort of core you should try to win with.
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Shouldn't I just be able to line up Sale, Quintana, Jones, Robertson, Abreu, Frazier, Eaton, Anderson, and fat Melky and get about 40 WAR and a playoff spot? How could your WAR calculations have been so wrong? And if it was just an anomaly, why wouldn't Hahn have just kept his 90-win team intact?

I'll bet they lacked grit and veteran leadership.
 
I don't know much about the ChiSox roster, but I've read they are pretty much 4-5 star players and a bunch of garbage.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
Shouldn't I just be able to line up Sale, Quintana, Jones, Robertson, Abreu, Frazier, Eaton, Anderson, and fat Melky and get about 40 WAR and a playoff spot? How could your WAR calculations have been so wrong? And if it was just an anomaly, why wouldn't Hahn have just kept his 90-win team intact?

I'll bet they lacked grit and veteran leadership.
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I don't think so.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
Shouldn't I just be able to line up Sale, Quintana, Jones, Robertson, Abreu, Frazier, Eaton, Anderson, and fat Melky and get about 40 WAR and a playoff spot? How could your WAR calculations have been so wrong? And if it was just an anomaly, why wouldn't Hahn have just kept his 90-win team intact?

I'll bet they lacked grit and veteran leadership.
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White Sox have(had) like 3 good players and a whole crap/meh. While I would agree that that's a good core they didn't have much of a supporting cast and their farm is completely barren.
 
thewupk said:
Actually that's a little bit of a discount. I figured he would of pushed 20 a year.
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Still have to think, they just let the Cubs borrow Chapman for half a year and got a nice return on investment. Still baffles me that the Royals only got Soler back for Davis.. I understand age and injury.. but Davis on a down year was still an Elite closer and Soler lost a lot of shine in my eyes.
 
thewupk said:
Actually that's a little bit of a discount. I figured he would of pushed 20 a year.
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I've heard people talk about how huge the contract is, but it's about in line with his value. The Yankees should be ready to win again by 2018-2019, so I think it's a good investment.
 
Wonder if The Nats will be able to steal Jansen from the fish. I don't know if they can beat that 5/80 the fish put out yesterday... if they do match it, they will have a payroll of almost 120 million in 2019 for 5 players.
 
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