I think it could be as well. We're trying to pitch to fans that we're moving forward and on the surface we just traded 2 major league ready players for two A ball pitchers. Plus of course we opened up two roster spots.
Braves trade Mallex and Simmons to M's for Gohara and Burrows
- Thread starter Enscheff
- Start date
I think it could be as well. We're trying to pitch to fans that we're moving forward and on the surface we just traded 2 major league ready players for two A ball pitchers. Plus of course we opened up two roster spots.
UNCBlue012
Well-known member
That's why I think we are going for a bigger trade. I know baseball is a business and you do what is best for your team longterm, but I can't think of a better way for the FO to let the fans know they're legitmately going for it than grabbing an Archer, Quintana or even Gray (though I'm not high on him with injury history).
I know this is low on the priority list when making a trade for prospects, but there's kind of a logjam in the High A and Low A Rotations.
At High A, the rotation is likely Allard, Soroka, Touki, Ricardo Sanchez and Gohara in some order, and that's assuming Weigel and Fried start in Double A like we all expect. I thought they might want to start Harrington at High A considering how advanced he is for a college pitcher, but I'm not sure that's an option now.
At Low A, the rotation is likely Anderson, Wentz, Muller, Bryse Wilson and Harrington.
Pretty crazy that there will be a legitimate prospect on the mound every night for both of those teams.
At High A, the rotation is likely Allard, Soroka, Touki, Ricardo Sanchez and Gohara in some order, and that's assuming Weigel and Fried start in Double A like we all expect. I thought they might want to start Harrington at High A considering how advanced he is for a college pitcher, but I'm not sure that's an option now.
At Low A, the rotation is likely Anderson, Wentz, Muller, Bryse Wilson and Harrington.
Pretty crazy that there will be a legitimate prospect on the mound every night for both of those teams.
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
I think we get a vet.
That said it's possible Conner Lein could be the rh sub to pair with inciarte and defensive sub for kemp. I know he's not a good hitter but we could push him. It's not like he's going to be a top prospect.
I think Gohan is going to be trade bait. I just don't want to lose albies in that deal
That said it's possible Conner Lein could be the rh sub to pair with inciarte and defensive sub for kemp. I know he's not a good hitter but we could push him. It's not like he's going to be a top prospect.
I think Gohan is going to be trade bait. I just don't want to lose albies in that deal
I think Harrington is moved to the pen in High A. That would mean Clouse, Harrington, and Burrows all in one pen...Or Clouse could move up to AA. Either way we do it, we're probably going to have 3 lefties in each rotation and 3 lefties in each pen.
These left handed college pen arms are going to move fast
striker42
Well-known member
Gohara is a perfect example of something that irks me about prospect writeups. You'll see the writeup about a prospect saying "His fastball comes in at 98 MPH, he has a devastating slider, and a developing changeup to go along with good control and a great feel for pitching." It will then end with the conclusion "He has a ceiling of a 3rd or 4th starter or a setup reliever". You'll see effusive praise followed by a prediction of mediocrity.
UNCBlue012
Well-known member
I'm not at all disagreeing with you, but I think it's more of a prediction based on the fact that there are so few 1s and 2s in the league. To most evalulators, I don't think that a 3-4 starter is failing by any means.
striker42
Well-known member
I wouldn't call being a 3-4 starter failing either. I just don't get why you so often see that as the ceiling of a guy who has the raw ability to be something more. I think it's because the evaluators lose less face when a guy outperforms expectations than when they disappoint. If you rave about a guy being a potential ace and he busts out in AA, you end up looking stupid. If you say a guy is a number 3 starter and he ends up an ace, you credit the player for working hard and beating projections.
It's been something I've had an issue with as well, but I think when they say 'ceiling' they actually mean something like 90th or 95th percentile odds. So I don't think they necessarily mean 'the best this person could possibly be' but more like 'the best this person is likely to be'. And I would say their projections are around 50th percentile.
Otherwise their would be a whole bunch of pitchers in the minors who they would have to label with a ceiling of a #1-2 starter. Of course, the flip side is that you get an incredible amount of guys labeled with a ceiling of a 3-4 starter.
But I think you can make your own guesses in these cases. If a pitcher has a really good fastball, a really good breaking ball, a 3rd pitch, and control issues, then if he figures out his control issues he's going to probably be really good.
This has been a pretty consistent reaction from those within the industry on Braves trades, and it kind of proves that we as fans don't often really know what we're talking about, at least with these lower-minors guys and with what FOs are thinking.
I didn't like the trade at first, but after seeing those in the industry talk about Gohara, I'm totally fine with it. He has real helium right now.
Jim Bowden piles on the praise:
And finally, the Braves get Luiz Gohara from the Mariners he has the most up-side of anyone traded yesterday. He sits 95 -97 mph and has touched 99. Video game numbers. May have the best pure stuff of any lefty in the minors. If he were drafted today he would be a top 5 pick. However, he has had shoulder concerns in the past, but he cleared the Braves vetting. They also get Burrows who profiles as a match-up reliever with a 88-92 mph fastball and solid slider.
And finally, the Braves get Luiz Gohara from the Mariners he has the most up-side of anyone traded yesterday. He sits 95 -97 mph and has touched 99. Video game numbers. May have the best pure stuff of any lefty in the minors. If he were drafted today he would be a top 5 pick. However, he has had shoulder concerns in the past, but he cleared the Braves vetting. They also get Burrows who profiles as a match-up reliever with a 88-92 mph fastball and solid slider.
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
I don't see how people can get too worked up about this kid's shoulder or the volume of arms.
The strategy has been very clearly stated that they collect a ton of high upside arms knowing only a very small percentage will work out.
The strategy has been very clearly stated that they collect a ton of high upside arms knowing only a very small percentage will work out.
Tapate50
Well-known member
Getting Gohara is a gamble on a helluva core piece with a nice fallback as a closer. I mean top closers are getting 80m, and netting huge returns on the trade market. If that's where he ends up it's still a big win in exchange for spare parts.
People take the ultimate meaning of stats too literally. It's just a tool in the final evaluation. Theread are a myriad of other important inputs though.
thats impressive praise.
dak
Well-known member
Yeah, this was pretty much how I was viewing Gohara's value after reading up on him last night. We basically traded Mallex for a top 10 pick without having to pay the signing bonus. Maybe a top 5 pick.
With the amount of cheap pitching that is set to hit the big leagues in the next 4 years you could conceivably go all out on position prospects.
Maybe big offers are in the works for guys like Machado....
This trade points out something that Coppy has said a few times. They're not ever going to stop trying to add talented players.
This also points out that there is no magic timeline for the rebuild to be over. I've heard 3 years, 5 years, or when the A ball kids make it to the majors. I don't think this regime is ever going to sit back, be lazy, and watch some baseball games. They're going to keep retooling and restocking. I appreciate the hustle and it makes it fun to follow if nothing else.
This also points out that there is no magic timeline for the rebuild to be over. I've heard 3 years, 5 years, or when the A ball kids make it to the majors. I don't think this regime is ever going to sit back, be lazy, and watch some baseball games. They're going to keep retooling and restocking. I appreciate the hustle and it makes it fun to follow if nothing else.