Affordable Care Act

I'd like to respond to some of these, though I understand you were addressing goldfly.

You then don't seem to understand that subsidization allows entities to use money on other things they otherwise wouldn't have been able to (i.e. abortions)

Unsurprisingly, that doesn't disturb me—nor most people in this country (though obviously it does deeply disturb a sizeable minority). Nonetheless, this line of argument would be a lot easier to swallow from those intending to federally-defund Planned Parenthood if an alternative proposal were put forward to ensure all the non-abortion services which Planned Parenthood offers were still made readily-available to those who need and depend on them. Maybe that means entirely decoupling Planned Parenthood's other services from its abortion services, then removing funding from the latter but continuing to fund the former.

Again—though I'm not a "fan" of abortion—those practices aren't problematic for me, on a political level; yet I understand they are to some. But to frame the funding of Planned Parenthood as simply about abortion rings pretty false to me, considering no alternative systems to convey its other services has even been suggested by the party seeking to defund it.

You haven't yet been able to tell me when government subsidization has helped improve quality and decrease costs like the technology industry has. I can't wait for the NIH to find the cure for Hep C... like Gilead recently did - and then has had Bernie Sanders yell at them for charging too much money for their cures.

This is why I am in favor of implementing more than the mere less-than-half-way socialization of these sort of life-essential industries: because there will always a disjunction between "saving a life" and "how much is fair to charge" when profit is part of the equation.

You don't seem to understand that running a federal deficit is theft to someone, whether it's us or future generations. It's quite selfish to support them

Better revenue strategies would be palliative to your deficit concerns—and that needn't be only in the form of more progressive taxation practices. For instance, Matt Bruenig has some pretty good alternative ideas about that in the context of the UBI:

The idea of capturing the 30 percent of national income that flows passively to capital every year and handing it out to everyone in society in equal chunks has been around since at least Oskar Lange wrote about it in the early parts of the last century. This is, to me, the best way to do a UBI, both practically and ideologically. Don’t tax labor to give money out to UBI “loafers.” Instead, snag society’s capital income, which is already paid out to people without regard to whether they work, and pay it out to everyone.

This might seem like a fantastical idea to some, but this is exactly how the Alaska Permanent Fund and the Permanent Fund Dividend works. Through the Permanent Fund, the state of Alaska owns a lot of capital assets. Those assets deliver annual capital income flows to the state, which are then parceled out in equal amounts to the citizens of Alaska through the Permanent Fund Dividend.

A national UBI would work very similarly. The US federal government would employ various strategies (mandatory share issuances, wealth taxes, counter-cyclical asset purchases, etc.) to build up a big wealth fund that owns capital assets. Those capital assets would deliver returns. And then the returns would be parceled out as a social dividend.

If you have a problem with this, but not the current arrangement where capital income is paid out in huge sums to small fractions of our society, then your issue is not really with passive income. It can’t be.

You don't seem to understand that guaranteeing health care for everyone implies that you are guaranteeing labor of highly specialized and skilled people (doctors)... how can you guarantee that without sacrificing liberty? I recognize that you don't care about individual liberty - but surely you can understand how what you want means someone will lose it

Sacrifices are necessary sometimes. It's not that I "don't care about individual liberty", but instead that I am willing to trade what I consider a relatively minor aspect of it (the freedom to not guarantee the "labor of highly specialized and skilled people (doctors)") for improvement of the health and life-expectancy outcomes of our society. Indeed, in my worldview, it's immoral and illiberal not to ensure the health and medical/psychological well-being of a society's populace.

You suck Obama's dick

Nothing wrong with sucking a bit of some dick, if that's your fancy.

You say Trump is a fascist but don't mention a word about Obama signing the NDAA and being the biggest war president we've ever had.

Plenty of folks on the left, myself included, have been (and continue to be) very critical of President Obama for that. But President Obama's habeas corpus and war-mongering sins don't make President Trump any less of an authoritarian threat (and, actually, by better enabling, make him more of one).

You keep feeding the liberal line of Russia manipulating the election but - per usual - you can't produce any evidence and can't even produce a consistent, coherent narrative as to why it's a problem.

The Russia thing—even if one assumes it to be one-hundred-percent legitimate (and I, for one, think it's very overblown)—is a ninety-nine-percent distraction.

You bitched for 8 years about Republicans not working to help Obama - and now you are doing precisely the same thing with Trump. Be consistent man.

For better or worse, it already seems like the Democrats are going to be more willing to work with or capitulate to President Trump than the Republicans were to President Obama—but we shall see.
 
Sacrifices are necessary sometimes. It's not that I "don't care about individual liberty", but instead that I am willing to trade what I consider a relatively minor aspect of it (the freedom to not guarantee the "labor of highly specialized and skilled people (doctors)") for improvement of the health and life-expectancy outcomes of our society. Indeed, in my worldview, it's immoral and illiberal not to ensure the health and medical/psychological well-being of a society's populace.

our founding fathers had no problem writing the 6th amendment forcing highly trained officials to do work against their will

thus "stealing liberty" from them

precedent was set by the founding fathers
 
JPX... i would have never written a post like that to you because you have at least remained consistent and had rational dialogue.

Goldy is just a joke. I don't think he's that bright. If he is, he's really hiding it well.

To address one of your points:

Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
Sacrifices are necessary sometimes. It's not that I "don't care about individual liberty", but instead that I am willing to trade what I consider a relatively minor aspect of it (the freedom to not guarantee the "labor of highly specialized and skilled people (doctors)") for improvement of the health and life-expectancy outcomes of our society. Indeed, in my worldview, it's immoral and illiberal not to ensure the health and medical/psychological well-being of a society's populace.

How do you guarantee this from a very simplistic level? 1. You must have ample supply of doctors in all areas of the country. 2. You must have doctors willing to live in Idaho rather than California to make sure their covered. 3. In order to make sure those doctors are willing to do it, you probably have to compensate them heavily. 4. In order to compensate them heavily, you have to tax or steal from future generations.

Someone is losing liberty in this equation. And it's easy to say "I am willing to trade what I consider a relatively minor aspect of it (the freedom to not guarantee the "labor of highly specialized and skilled people (doctors)") for improvement of the health and life-expectancy outcomes of our society" when you're not the person in question.

My gf is about to graduate med school. I truly wish she never started. Thanks to managed care, physician salaries are going lower and lower. It got to the point where her mom (OBGYN) retired at after 51 because she didn't feel the compensation was worth the workload. My gf has borrowed $300,000 and given up the prime of her life in order to practice medicine to help people, and I am no longer confiedent that she will be compensated fairly. Now doctors are being paid less, and med school applications are declining because of it. So what happens? We get worse health care, we get more government intervention, we get more price controls, etc etc.

I'm not comfortable guaranteeing the right of someone having a highly skilled and specialized service of another individual. That's just my $0.02. I know we're going to get it, because ACA was an unmitigated failure designed to collapse so we will have no choice. And somehow capitalism will be blamed and the government will be seen as the rescuer.
 
Speaking of jokes -- after 4 years of belly aching, bogus criticism and hollow threats it appears (R) does not have the votes to repeal.

Side note:

A person going into medicine for the money ought reconsider their motives

.....

As far as that $300K debt -- I believe Sen Sanders and Sec Clinton had thoughts on that.
Can't remember Gary Johnson's stance
 
C1z8F8tWEAAdVBh.jpg:large
 
Side note:

A person going into medicine for the money ought reconsider their motives

.....

As far as that $300K debt -- I believe Sen Sanders and Sec Clinton had thoughts on that.

Can't remember Gary Johnson's stance

Oh... you want people to give up 10 years of their life training a highly specialized skill that few can do to not expect to be compensated?

And their plan was to steal from others to erase it.

Again.... liberty is taken from someone always
 
1) I never wrote anything about denying compensation for a " highly specialized skill " Reread

2) " mathamatics concepts " --- again.

3) ah Liberty
 
1) I never wrote anything about denying compensation for a " highly specialized skill " Reread

2) " mathamatics concepts " --- again.

3) ah Liberty

1) I never said you did. I responded to your point. Reread

2) I know you don't understand math. You don't have to keep proving it to us

3. It's a bitch ain't it? It seems the only liberty you support is abortion
 
Andy Slavitt Verified account
‏@ASlavitt

ACA repeal affects many who aren't aware.

Here are the people impacted on in one place.

RT if you think helpful.

C2EgeDsUsAAP2QC.jpg:large
 
CNNVerified account
‏@CNN

Voter to @SenTomCotton: My husband is dying. We can't afford health insurance. What kind of insurance do you have?

...................

LOLGOP‏@LOLGOP 5m5 minutes ago

LOLGOP Retweeted CNN

Weird coincidence, madam. I have the kind of health insurance I'm not trying to take away from 25 million Americans.
 
"Unfortunately, at this time there are groups from the more violent strains of the leftist ideology, some even being paid, who are preying on public town halls to wreak havoc and threaten public safety. Threats are nothing new to me and I have gotten my share as a felony judge. However, the House Sergeant at Arms advised us after former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords was shot at a public appearance, that civilian attendees at Congressional public events stand the most chance of being harmed or killed—just as happened there. One Congressional friend had one of his district staff members knocked unconscious and hospitalized this past week after being overrun by a group intent on physical confrontation and disruption. "
- Louis Gohmert Feb , 2017

On why he won't face constituents Town Hall meetings to discuss Gohmert's vote to repeal and replace/
...........................

Different picture - different time

GettyImages-465213656.jpg
 
CNNVerified account
‏@CNN

Voter to @SenTomCotton: My husband is dying. We can't afford health insurance. What kind of insurance do you have?

...................

LOLGOP‏@LOLGOP 5m5 minutes ago

LOLGOP Retweeted CNN

Weird coincidence, madam. I have the kind of health insurance I'm not trying to take away from 25 million Americans.

Which California senator was it that derided a constituent shortly before ACA was passed? The constituent asked the senator if she would be on one of the ACA plans and the senator's reply was along the lines of "That's ridiculous, show me more respect, I'm a senator."

There were efforts to put congress on ACA plans. The people that voted for ACA didn't think that was a good idea.
 
"Unfortunately, at this time there are groups from the more violent strains of the leftist ideology, some even being paid, who are preying on public town halls to wreak havoc and threaten public safety. Threats are nothing new to me and I have gotten my share as a felony judge. However, the House Sergeant at Arms advised us after former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords was shot at a public appearance, that civilian attendees at Congressional public events stand the most chance of being harmed or killed—just as happened there. One Congressional friend had one of his district staff members knocked unconscious and hospitalized this past week after being overrun by a group intent on physical confrontation and disruption. "
- Louis Gohmert Feb , 2017

On why he won't face constituents Town Hall meetings to discuss Gohmert's vote to repeal and replace/
...........................

Different picture - different time

GettyImages-465213656.jpg

He asks as if recent gatherings of democrats have been lawless or something. Weird.
 
With a minimum of effort you can tell us all which Senator and please include full quote and context.
Sen Feinstein and Sen Boxer were California Senators.
That sentiment sounds nothing like anything either have said
If you claim it please back it up.

I am willing to stand corrected
 
He asks as if recent gatherings of democrats have been lawless or something. Weird.

No he inferred

" "Unfortunately, at this time there are groups from the more violent strains of the leftist ideology, some even being paid, who are preying on public town halls to wreak havoc and threaten public safety "

" Threats are nothing new to me ... "
what threats ? Besides the threat of voting him out of office

" One Congressional friend had one of his district staff members knocked unconscious and hospitalized this past week after being overrun by a group intent on physical confrontation and disruption. "

who ? what congressman what aide
.............................
 
Adam Cancryn
‏@adamcancryn

Trump on health reform: "Now, I have to tell you, it's an unbelievably complex subject. Nobody knew health care could be so complicated."


LOLGOP‏

Remember all those studies about Fox News viewers being unusually misinformed. That's our president now.

http://www.vox.com/2017/2/27/14750944/trump-health-care-complicated

If Congress wanted to, they could easily reverse this order of operations. Ryan and Trump could set ACA repeal aside and work on a revenue-neutral tax reform plan. Then if it passes, they could consider health issues separately. Ryan doesn’t want to do it that way. And to be clear, that’s him making a choice, not a statutory requirement. But people in Trump’s circle seem to have misinformed him about the sequencing — possibly in order to prevent the president and the speaker from getting into a dispute about it.
 
New Day‏Verified account @NewDay

GOP Rep. Chaffetz: Americans may need to choose between "new iphone... they just love" and investing in health care

it's that kinda schit
 
Political Theater

Alan Mundy‏ @idontwan2know 5m5 minutes ago

The irony of course is that this bill is a non-starter in the Senate. Would be lucky to get 45 votes.
 
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