Russia Collusion Scandal (aka A Leftist fantasy)

TheThe,

What is it going to take for Trump loyal supporters to wake up and see this man for what he really is? At the least, he is a vain incompetent fool at worst he is the man that will end civilization as we know it.
How many more of his daily lies, twitter rants and misdeeds is it going to take for his blind supporters to say enough is enough?
 
Yeah, that's what I don't really get about the denialists here.

Even without accepting any inferences about the origin of the email and with full disclaimers that it doesn't by itself prove complicity in actual deeds, I don't know why this shouldn't be considered a big deal.

Junior got presented with an opportunity to cooperate with Russians to bring out dirt on HRC. He basically said "Hells yeah! Let's talk about timing" and cc's Manafort and Kushner.

Hawk says because one of the intermediaries is a goof who's clearly on the Bowman fitness plan, we shouldn't pay attention. Thethe says conspiracy and wants to shrink the bullseye to subatomic size.
 
Julio3000 said:
Yeah, that's what I don't really get about the denialists here.

Even without accepting any inferences about the origin of the email and with full disclaimers that it doesn't by itself prove complicity in actual deeds, I don't know why this shouldn't be considered a big deal.

Junior got presented with an opportunity to cooperate with Russians to bring out dirt on HRC. He basically said "Hells yeah! Let's talk about timing" and cc's Manafort and Kushner.

Hawk says because one of the intermediaries is a goof who's clearly on the Bowman fitness plan, we shouldn't pay attention. Thethe says conspiracy and wants to shrink the bullseye to subatomic size.
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Maybe it's because I don't see a difference between someone like Russia and an entity like the NYT or MSNBC. I see these as global players trying to wield influence but we are all fine with the dems working lock and step with these entities.

I know trump is an immoral man. I wouldn't say incompetent just not learned on political matters which of course is an issue. I vote for policies and not candidates and I can just not support the democratic ticket as their beliefs are diametrically opposed to mine. Sorry.
 
sturg33 said:
Do the people on the left actually care that the Russians tried to "interfere?"

Haven't they done it every election?

Doesn't the US to it as well?

doesn't other countries?

Isn't this just a big which hunt?
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I've complained plenty about the US meddling in elections and other institutional mechanisms of foreign powers—it's actually a pretty old saw amongst the non-neoliberal-hawkish left, and even a concern for many more milquetoast liberals.

I think what separates this specific instance, in the minds and imaginations of many, is the bumbling obviousness with which a major US campaign sought out and/or accepted this sort of foreign intervention, hoping to leverage it on their behalf.
 
Hawk said:
If Mike Pence becomes President of this country I'm moving to the Philippines.
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Prague, or going back to Myanmar. But both the Balkans and the Baltic are worth a look, in terms of work-visa viability.
 
thethe said:
Why is that exactly? Did north Korea have different aspirations under bush? Under obama?
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Trump is a bully with buttons that can be pushed. Obama is a decent measured human being, that is not going to risk lives uncalled for if it can be helped. Little Bush for all his faults, I do believe had intentions of making his cronies money, not unlike Trump, but after 9/11 I think he had no choice but grow into the job. At the time of his election, I thought he was the worst ever to hold the job in my lifetime now Trump has surpassed that. They do share the fact that they are and were illegitimately elected so there is that.

So your conscience would not let you vote HRC. I get that. Yet that same conscience lets you vote for a man you yourself called immoral?? I don't get that. If I were in your shoes and that conflicted I would have voted for myself rather than contributed to this mess.
 
thethe said:
How was the meeting with this lawyer an example of support from the Russian government?
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Very first email:

"June 3, 2016 10:36 a.m.

Rob Goldstone to Donald Trump Jr.

Subject: Russia - Clinton - private and confidential

Good morning

Emin just called and asked me to contact you with something very interesting.



The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin.

What do you think is the best way to handle this information and would you be able to speak to Emin about it directly?

I can also send this info to your father via Rhona, but it is ultra sensitive so wanted to send to you first.

Best

Rob Goldstone"
 
VirginiaBrave said:
TheThe,

What is it going to take for Trump loyal supporters to wake up and see this man for what he really is? At the least, he is a vain incompetent fool at worst he is the man that will end civilization as we know it.
How many more of his daily lies, twitter rants and misdeeds is it going to take for his blind supporters to say enough is enough?
Click to expand...

Some people just like getting conned. Trump is the greatest con-man in history. Just because he now has an "R" in front of his name, they'll defend him to the end. Instead of being country first, it's party first. I left the Republican party over this con-man and I can't imagine I'm the last.
 
VirginiaBrave said:
Trump is a bully with buttons that can be pushed. Obama is a decent measured human being, that is not going to risk lives uncalled for if it can be helped. Little Bush for all his faults, I do believe had intentions of making his cronies money, not unlike Trump, but after 9/11 I think he had no choice but grow into the job. At the time of his election, I thought he was the worst ever to hold the job in my lifetime now Trump has surpassed that. They do share the fact that they are and were illegitimately elected so there is that.

So your conscience would not let you vote HRC. I get that. Yet that same conscience lets you vote for a man you yourself called immoral?? I don't get that. If I were in your shoes and that conflicted I would have voted for myself rather than contributed to this mess.
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I live in NY. I didn't vote because it didn't matter but if I was in a state where it impacted the outcome I would have gladly voted for Trump because of the policies I believe in. That's what actually impacts me.
 
CK86 said:
Very first email:

"June 3, 2016 10:36 a.m.

Rob Goldstone to Donald Trump Jr.

Subject: Russia - Clinton - private and confidential

Good morning

Emin just called and asked me to contact you with something very interesting.



The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin.

What do you think is the best way to handle this information and would you be able to speak to Emin about it directly?

I can also send this info to your father via Rhona, but it is ultra sensitive so wanted to send to you first.

Best

Rob Goldstone"
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I don't understand. If this information was valid shouldn't the American people know about it? Why does it matter what the source is if the information is pertinent?

Collusion is a strong word that doesn't describe what took place or may have taken place.
 
thethe said:
I don't understand. If this information was valid shouldn't the American people know about it? Why does it matter what the source is if the information is pertinent?

Collusion is a strong word that doesn't describe what took place or may have taken place.
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You're moving the goalposts. Your previous post said "How was the meeting with this lawyer an example of support from the Russian government?" and the email explicitly says "is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump."
 
CK86 said:
You're moving the goalposts. Your previous post said "How was the meeting with this lawyer an example of support from the Russian government?" and the email explicitly says "is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump."
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Ok. That is clearly in the email exchange. Not sure at what authority this person has to speak on the behalf of the Russian government but that's another debate.

However, if the information which impplicated HRCs involvement with Russia is valid then I would want to know about it
 
Russia is colluding with anti-fracking groups in America by spreading false information about fracking

Should we investigate these people Too?
 
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