Official 2017 Trade Deadilne Thread

[PurpleBrave]

If the Indians are really offering Mejia and the Rockies are really offering Pint AND McMahon, you guys aren't going to like what we will have to give up. If I'm the A's and the Indians are offering Mejia, I take that before they change their minds.

 

[Enscheff]

If the Indians are really offering Mejia and the Rockies are really offering Pint AND McMahon, you guys aren't going to like what we will have to give up. If I'm the A's and the Indians are offering Mejia, I take that before they change their minds.

Nobody is really offering that.

It was a mock trade on BP where writers played the roles of various GMs.

It is illustrative of Gray's value, but it is in no way anything real, rumor or otherwise.

 

[Russ2dollas]

I just posted what the BP guys ended up doing in their mock Gray trade. The headliners for the 3 best packages were Martes from Houston, Mejia from Cleveland and a combo of Pint/McMahon from Colorado.

There is no way Pache is the headliner for Gray in a trade that is even remotely close to even.

The A's will be getting at least 1 premium guy when they move Gray, so if the proposed package doesn't include a legit Top 50 guy (and not a fringe 50 guy), it isn't realistic.

I can see the A's valuing the nearly MLB-ready guys in the Braves organization more than almost any other team, but some of these packages being thrown around are the typical silliness posted around here when folks try to piece together trade packages of spare parts for stars. Seriously, if a proposal looks like something clv would come up with, you can rest assured it is completely unrealistic.

If that's the case you don't buy.

If people keep dropping out then you buy with your Pache + Sims deal.

To me it's that simple. You either get a deal b/c Beane decides he has to deal and you are the last chick in the bar or you figure it out in the off season.

 

[Enscheff]

If that's the case you don't buy.

If people keep dropping out then you buy with your Pache + Sims deal.

To me it's that simple. You either get a deal b/c Beane decides he has to deal and you are the last chick in the bar or you figure it out in the off season.

Can't really disagree with that position. If Coppy swung that deal it would be a HUGE win for the Braves.

If I'm Beane, Gray gets traded today. There is no way he makes his start tonight in an A's uniform.

His trade value will not go up or down no matter how he pitches, but if he gets hurt his value is essentially 0.

It's exactly like the Garcia situation....but the stakes are 100x higher.

 

[Southcack77]

Casuals always do this type of math...incorrectly.

A huge chunk of that money being "freed up" is already going towards raises to other players.

The Tigers are not trading Verlander without getting a significant prospect return. That only happens if they include money.

Last time I did this calc, I think Verlander had something like -$10M in surplus value. If the Tigers want a Top 50 guy for Verlander, they will have to eat about $30M-$40M to make the value even.

Would folks be happy with Verlander at $10M per year for 2 years in exchange for Allard? Could be palatable if you aren't high on Allard (some folks are convinced he is too small with no out pitch, so maybe it works).

I understand that there are increases in salary. I even mentioned in the post itself. It's right there. I didn't look it up, but I guess neither did you.

I would also expect an increase in payroll from Liberty. I expect additional Braves moves aimed at potentially clearing salary if they did this. they could for example, decline Dickey's option, and move Jim Johnson and you are up to about 19 million in shed salary, which I think would probably cover things. You also have heard them talking about Teheran, which would be another way to free up room.

I've also been pretty clear in this thread that the Tigers would probably want a bigger prospect haul than the folks here are suggesting. I specifically indicated Allard could be in the deal. I'm only going through this as a hypothetical. 11 million for one year might be something the Tigers would entertain though, even in the form of Markakis who they could then either play or see if they could move a portion of his salary for a minor prospect.

I'm not sure why you phrased your response as disagreement.

 

[50PoundHead]

Nobody is really offering that.

It was a mock trade on BP where writers played the roles of various GMs.

It is illustrative of Gray's value, but it is in no way anything real, rumor or otherwise.

Those would be optimal price tags for Gray. If the Rockies offered that, Beane would be crazy to say no unless he would want a pitching prospect closer to the majors (which he often does).

 

[Hawk]

Oakland A's
@Athletics
JK on that lineup tweet. New lineup is forthcoming.

---

No idea what this means, just throwing it out there.

 

[Horsehide Harry]

OK here you go (idea):

I am on record as wanting to build in a different way. But, if the Braves just have to trade for SP, then:

Detroit trades Braves: Fullmer, Verlander, Zimmerman and Kinsler. 2018 add payroll (~$63M) then Kinsler goes away (-$10M) for 2019, Verlander goes away (-$28M) in 2020, Zimmerman goes away (-$25M) in 2021.

Detroit severely cuts payroll and the sugar to make it happen is Fullmer.

Braves trade Detroit: Kemp (+$16M) through 2019, Camargo (plays second for Kinsler), Markakis (+10.5M) through 2018, Pache, Sims, Sanchez, Wisler

Detroit begins to clear up its long term payroll and rids itself of Zimmerman (Verlander they could at least give away). Braves take on quite a bit of money but get their veteran arms short term ($53M per year as opposed to typical yearly veteran arm expenditure of $15M~$30M), buy some time for the youngsters to develop and get a very good, young, controllable starter in return without having to give up much. Kinsler gives you a legit veteran to help man 3B and/or 2B in 2018 after which he is gone.

Braves then trade Adams and Teheran for best available prospect package. Decline Dickey's option.

2018 rotation: Verlander, Fullmer, Folty, Newcomb, Zimmerman (let's you go slow with Allard, Soroka, etc.) Hope the return to the NL brings back Zimmerman to a solid #3.

2019 rotation: Verlander, Fullmer, Newcomb, Zimmerman, best of Allard/Soroka (Trade Folty before he get's too expensive)

2020 rotation: Fullmer, Newcomb, Allard, Soroka, Zimmerman

2021 rotation: Newcomb, Allard, Soroka,Wright, Anderson (trade Fullmer before he get's too expensive)

2018 with Kemp and Markakis gone you play Acuna on one corner and fill the other through trade acquisition (maybe from the departure of Teheran and Adams).

Not saying I would do it. But, an option if you MUST try to add veteran pitching to "compete" in 2018.

 

[clvclv]

If the Indians are really offering Mejia and the Rockies are really offering Pint AND McMahon, you guys aren't going to like what we will have to give up. If I'm the A's and the Indians are offering Mejia, I take that before they change their minds.

And this is exactly why I expect Coppy to play - only to a point. As mentioned earlier, a slight overpay is understandable if they're trying to advance the competitive window, but a huge one would be ridiculous at this point. IF you can land Gray with quantity over quality (to a point), you jump. A huge overpay from Colorado makes sense since they have so much trouble attracting pitching otherwise. Does Pint ever turn into Gray? Maybe, maybe not - and McMahon is blocked everywhere he looks. It even makes sense for Cleveland to offer Mejia - they are so close you're at a point where you mortgage future.

If he has to include one of the "Big 6", I fully expect him to pass - just as he did when they would've been required to get Quintana. The Braves obviously aren't that close.

 

[Russ2dollas]

OK here you go (idea):

I am on record as wanting to build in a different way. But, if the Braves just have to trade for SP, then:

Detroit trades Braves: Fullmer, Verlander, Zimmerman and Kinsler. 2018 add payroll (~$63M) then Kinsler goes away (-$10M) for 2019, Verlander goes away (-$28M) in 2020, Zimmerman goes away (-$25M) in 2021.

Detroit severely cuts payroll and the sugar to make it happen is Fullmer.

Braves trade Detroit: Kemp (+$16M) through 2019, Camargo (plays second for Kinsler), Markakis (+10.5M) through 2018, Pache, Sims, Sanchez, Wisler

Detroit begins to clear up its long term payroll and rids itself of Zimmerman (Verlander they could at least give away). Braves take on quite a bit of money but get their veteran arms short term ($53M per year as opposed to typical yearly veteran arm expenditure of $15M~$30M), buy some time for the youngsters to develop and get a very good, young, controllable starter in return without having to give up much. Kinsler gives you a legit veteran to help man 3B and/or 2B in 2018 after which he is gone.

Braves then trade Adams and Teheran for best available prospect package. Decline Dickey's option.

2018 rotation: Verlander, Fullmer, Folty, Newcomb, Zimmerman (let's you go slow with Allard, Soroka, etc.) Hope the return to the NL brings back Zimmerman to a solid #3.

2019 rotation: Verlander, Fullmer, Newcomb, Zimmerman, best of Allard/Soroka (Trade Folty before he get's too expensive)

2020 rotation: Fullmer, Newcomb, Allard, Soroka, Zimmerman

2021 rotation: Newcomb, Allard, Soroka,Wright, Anderson (trade Fullmer before he get's too expensive)

2018 with Kemp and Markakis gone you play Acuna on one corner and fill the other through trade acquisition (maybe from the departure of Teheran and Adams).

Not saying I would do it. But, an option if you MUST try to add veteran pitching to "compete" in 2018.

I'm on record liking the mega trade with the Tigers. It requires

1. Braves willing to take on a bunch of money. Zimmerman is an awful deal for a long time.

2. Tigers really wanting to dump money

I do not think your package is good enough. I think Fulmer is leaving is going to require at least one of our top 7. He's really good and he's really cheap for a long time. Yes they are dumping money but they'll want an Allard to replace him to consider moving him unless they go Marlins fire sale. So far there is no indication they are looking to go fire sale.

 

[Southcack77]

OK here you go (idea):

I am on record as wanting to build in a different way. But, if the Braves just have to trade for SP, then:

Detroit trades Braves: Fullmer, Verlander, Zimmerman and Kinsler. 2018 add payroll (~$63M) then Kinsler goes away (-$10M) for 2019, Verlander goes away (-$28M) in 2020, Zimmerman goes away (-$25M) in 2021.
Detroit severely cuts payroll and the sugar to make it happen is Fullmer.

Braves trade Detroit: Kemp (+$16M) through 2019, Camargo (plays second for Kinsler), Markakis (+10.5M) through 2018, Pache, Sims, Sanchez, Wisler

Detroit begins to clear up its long term payroll and rids itself of Zimmerman (Verlander they could at least give away). Braves take on quite a bit of money but get their veteran arms short term ($53M per year as opposed to typical yearly veteran arm expenditure of $15M~$30M), buy some time for the youngsters to develop and get a very good, young, controllable starter in return without having to give up much. Kinsler gives you a legit veteran to help man 3B and/or 2B in 2018 after which he is gone.

Braves then trade Adams and Teheran for best available prospect package. Decline Dickey's option.

2018 rotation: Verlander, Fullmer, Folty, Newcomb, Zimmerman (let's you go slow with Allard, Soroka, etc.) Hope the return to the NL brings back Zimmerman to a solid #3.
2019 rotation: Verlander, Fullmer, Newcomb, Zimmerman, best of Allard/Soroka (Trade Folty before he get's too expensive)
2020 rotation: Fullmer, Newcomb, Allard, Soroka, Zimmerman
2021 rotation: Newcomb, Allard, Soroka,Wright, Anderson (trade Fullmer before he get's too expensive)

2018 with Kemp and Markakis gone you play Acuna on one corner and fill the other through trade acquisition (maybe from the departure of Teheran and Adams).

Not saying I would do it. But, an option if you MUST try to add veteran pitching to "compete" in 2018.

I'd respectfully suggest that this is way too complicated a deal. Has any team in history every moved 3/5 of a rotation in one trade?

 

[DirkPiggler]

I'd respectfully suggest that this is way too complicated a deal. Has any team in history every moved 3/5 of a rotation in one trade?

The last time MLB saw a trade that complicated was back in the 70s when the two Yankees traded wives and children.

 

[Enscheff]

I'd respectfully suggest that this is way too complicated a deal. Has any team in history every moved 3/5 of a rotation in one trade?

Harry is becoming the new murph with his outlandish trade ideas

 

[Hawk]

Is Zimmermann toast? He's looked putrid since joining the Tigers and I wonder if there's any reason to hypothesize that a change of scenery could be beneficial. He's due $75MM still.

 

[Horsehide Harry]

Harry is becoming the new murph with his outlandish trade ideas

I just get bored with all this gotta have Gray talk.

It's like watching someone walking through a mine field and, held in suspense, wondering when IF they will step on a mine....then you notice that they already have prosthetic legs...

 

[Horsehide Harry]

Is Zimmermann toast? He's looked putrid since joining the Tigers and I wonder if there's any reason to hypothesize that a change of scenery could be beneficial. He's due $75MM still.

That's why I think the Braves could get Fullmer for almost nothing. Chances are Zimmerman isn't quite as good as he was (he's getting older) but that a move back to the NL would benefit him to where he would at least be a serviceable 3-4 who eats a lot of innings.

 

[Horsehide Harry]

I'm on record liking the mega trade with the Tigers. It requires
1. Braves willing to take on a bunch of money. Zimmerman is an awful deal for a long time.
2. Tigers really wanting to dump money

I do not think your package is good enough. I think Fulmer is leaving is going to require at least one of our top 7. He's really good and he's really cheap for a long time. Yes they are dumping money but they'll want an Allard to replace him to consider moving him unless they go Marlins fire sale. So far there is no indication they are looking to go fire sale.

I wouldn't do it if it takes anyone as good as Allard going back. Detroit gets rid of 2 huge contracts.

 

[chop2chip]

I love the idea of taking on Zimmerman and Verlander to minimize the cost for Fulmer...

Except, everyone here seems to have forgotten who owns the club.

 

[Horsehide Harry]

I love the idea of taking on Zimmerman and Verlander to minimize the cost for Fulmer...

Except, everyone here seems to have forgotten who owns the club.

They care about the money for sure BUT... if you rid yourself of Kemp and Markakis (about $27M in 2017) plus Colon, Garcia and Dickey (about $25M in 2017), trade Teheran and Adams (about $8.5M in 2017) you are at $60.5M and the trade I proposed added about $63M. It's not like you can expect the Braves not to replace Colon, Garcia and Dickey with their equivalents this offseason.

 

[Heyward]

[TW]889896827788513280[/TW]

A couple of the posters here would make much better and more knowledgable beat writers than Mr. Music, Food, and Sniffs Snitker's Butt, DOB.

I'd probably do that and 1-2 filler prospects of the A's choosing.

Would hurt losing Allard but if it's known we can extend Gray thats a great deal for the Braves. No way in hades the A's do Pache and filler for Gray.

I'm probably the least excited on Allard, i have Soroka, Wright, Gohara ahead, and Anderson, Wentz i like alot as well. Wouldnt completely gut our pitching.