Megathread: Braves lose Maitan, Bae and 10+ plus International Sanctions.

MadduxFanII said:
Frank Wren was fired three years ago. After that decision, we were inundated with stories about what a horrible person Wren was, what an awful GM, how he had caused the franchise to lose the path of the beam. Hart came in and gave a ton of interviews in which he described the Braves as a blasted hellscape thanks to Wren’s incompetence and received fulsome media praise for his candor.

Over the last three years, Frank didn’t say word one about any of that. A couple months ago, when Rosenthal started reporting on dysfunction within the organization, Keith Law, without evidence, claimed that the Wrens were feeding Rosenthal the stories, because obviously there was nothing there.

At that point, Jeff Wren started going crazy on Twitter and that continued once this scandal broke and vindicated Rosenthal.

So, in other words, the Wren family was silent for nearly three years while everyone associated with the Braves threw dirt on Frank’s grave, and Jeff spoke up once a prominent ESPN journalist accused his family of planting negative stories about the front office.

Jeff is clearly more than a bit obsessive, and I won’t defend his tweeting, but it’s not the Wrens that come off looking like the bad guys here. Hell, at least Jeff is willing to put his name to his comments, which is more than you can say for the anonymous sources who blasted his brother three years ago.
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Oh hell yes. That should have been a red flag.
 
MadduxFanII said:
Frank Wren was fired three years ago. After that decision, we were inundated with stories about what a horrible person Wren was, what an awful GM, how he had caused the franchise to lose the path of the beam. Hart came in and gave a ton of interviews in which he described the Braves as a blasted hellscape thanks to Wren’s incompetence and received fulsome media praise for his candor.

Over the last three years, Frank didn’t say word one about any of that. A couple months ago, when Rosenthal started reporting on dysfunction within the organization, Keith Law, without evidence, claimed that the Wrens were feeding Rosenthal the stories, because obviously there was nothing there.

At that point, Jeff Wren started going crazy on Twitter and that continued once this scandal broke and vindicated Rosenthal.

So, in other words, the Wren family was silent for nearly three years while everyone associated with the Braves threw dirt on Frank’s grave, and Jeff spoke up once a prominent ESPN journalist accused his family of planting negative stories about the front office.

Jeff is clearly more than a bit obsessive, and I won’t defend his tweeting, but it’s not the Wrens that come off looking like the bad guys here. Hell, at least Jeff is willing to put his name to his comments, which is more than you can say for the anonymous sources who blasted his brother three years ago.
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FWIW, Jeff has been vocal for a few years now. But, regardless, your post is on point.
 
1. There is no actual evidence the Braves missed projections. According to Liberty's reporting the Braves profits before depreciation and amortization were up 66% through August.

2. How the hell does trading Sean Rodriguez = payroll problems? That doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't the Braves trade him?

3. If the Braves actually do have payroll issues they will be pulling out stops on trading Markakis and Kemp, even if it meant eating salary, because that actually would be saving money. That's something to watch but right now they are taking big about platooning them rather than eat money. Granted that makes no sense in the world in almost any scenario so I don't believe it.

4. I suspect that the payroll will be roughly in line with last season 115-120. There won't be a ton of flexibility for big free agents as things stand but I'd look for them to look at trades of Markakis, Kemp, Matt Adams, Vizcaino, Johnson etc.

Their roster limitations are almost bigger than the money issues once you get past the premium free agents.

They won't be adding at 1b, 2b, SS, C, OF. And won't be playing t top of market for free agents.

A sensible strategy given those limitations, the realistic free agent market, and the roster/projections, would be to play at the edges, not make commitments and see where that gets you wile waiting for some deals to expire or get closer to expiration.
 
JxnMissFan said:
It feels like the semi retired guy (Hart) is holding the entire franchise hostage. If McGurick is really "the guy" and a good CEO he needs to tell the two remaining Johns that they go. Both Johns seem more interested in their self than the long term well being of the franchise.

The Braves are in a great position with the farm system, new stadium, bad contracts expiring, and in several years a new tv deal. McGurick should be able to attract a great leader.
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Not sure it's possible for a guy with no years left on his deal to hold the org hostage.

He only has the authority he's permitted.

The question is whether he really wants to be the decision maker and then whether the decision makers in the Braves group believe in him to do it or not. He doesn't have any leverage, imo beyond what the decision makers think of his ability.

It's a no brainer decision to me that you would want to sweep the baseball ops clean and bring someone in.

But it's very possible there are decision makers who feel that continuity with the former plan is important as is knowledge of the organization.

I think these are overvalued things.
 
I don't think Jeff Wren deserves credit in any way shape or form for his twitter feed. It really is sad and embarrassing.

I'm not sure that he kept his mouth shut until Keith law called him out. Pretty sure that's horse****.

Anonymous sources from other orgs are killing Coppy. As are anonymous sources from within braves that are killing Coppy, that killed Wren, that are killing JS and JH.

Internal braves folks are squawking about everyone which means you probably have ****ty internal leadership since JS stepped down.

Not taking JS's side now there but just noting that internal politics and leaking and dislike of decision makers was not apparent then.
 
There's an outside chance that Sean Rodriguez was traded because Coppy tampered with him before he became a FA and that was discovered shortly before the trade.
 
GeorgiaGirl said:
There's an outside chance that Sean Rodriguez was traded because Coppy tampered with him before he became a FA and that was discovered shortly before the trade.
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I think his purpose was to probably start 100 games at 2b or 3b while Braves waited on Albies.

I think the major injury and his subsequent punchlessness made the Braves only too willing to rid themselves of a relatively significant obligation that no longer looked like a particularly useful allocation of limited resources.

I think it was a great trade to get him off the books.

I don't quite understand why you wouldn't have wanted that trade as a braves fan. Seemed totally sensible to me anyway.

If he'd been healthy it might have panned out- still would have been good chance he'd have been flipped
 
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Southcack77 said:
3. If the Braves actually do have payroll issues they will be pulling out stops on trading Markakis and Kemp, even if it meant eating salary, because that actually would be saving money. That's something to watch but right now they are taking big about platooning them rather than eat money. Granted that makes no sense in the world in almost any scenario so I don't believe it.
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My hope is that with Coppy gone, this apparent need to save face on the Olivera mistake will go away and we can rid ourselves of Matt Kemp. It is inexcusable to have such a massive defensive liability on the field while attempting to rebuild with a focus on young pitching.
 
lol southcrack still with his head in the sand.

Didn't he claim payroll was $126M last year? And now 115-120 is "right in line"? Or do I get the ostriches on the board confused?

Is anyone honestly daft enough to think payroll being flat or decreasing the 2nd year of a new ballpark is anything other than an indication they missed projected revenue?

Get a clue man. Holy hell, it only takes a shred of common sense.
 
Enscheff said:
lol southcrack still with his head in the sand.

Didn't he claim payroll was $126M last year? And now 115-120 is "right in line"? Or do I get the ostriches on the board confused?

Is anyone honestly daft enough to think payroll being flat or decreasing the 2nd year of a new ballpark is anything other than an indication they missed projected revenue?

Get a clue man. Holy hell, it only takes a shred of common sense.
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I linked an article from the ajc. that's the extent of my claims about payroll.
 
I'll believe payroll goes down when I see it. I won't say it has never happened outside of Miami, but I can't find one other example of a franchise reducing payroll by 10 percent or more a year after opening a new park.
 
Enscheff said:
lol southcrack still with his head in the sand.

Didn't he claim payroll was $126M last year? And now 115-120 is "right in line"? Or do I get the ostriches on the board confused?

Is anyone honestly daft enough to think payroll being flat or decreasing the 2nd year of a new ballpark is anything other than an indication they missed projected revenue?

Get a clue man. Holy hell, it only takes a shred of common sense.
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Missing revenue projections is one possible explanation of a static to slightly trimmed payroll. It is not the only explanation.

Another very possible explanation is that the Braves jumped the payroll for last year with the acquisitions of guys like Colon and Dickey in order to create buzz for the first year at the new park. You want the hype as big as you can get it the first year at a new park to try to drive season ticket sales. If you can get someone to buy season tickets once, you're much more likely to get them to renew. So a one time investment for last year makes sense.

Another explanation is that the Braves have been spending almost all of their max allotted payroll in recent years which can lead to smaller bonuses for the brass. Those decision makers may very well have decided to roll the amount actually spent back a bit so they can bump their own bonuses.

Yet another possible explanation is that the Braves are just sandbagging here. It's the beginning of the offseason. You don't want agents or other teams to know if you have extra cash to play with. You want to them to think you're poverty stricken. If an agent knows you have money to spend they'll squeeze you for more and if we try to trade someone like Kemp, we want the other team picking up as much of the tab as possible.

Personally I believe the payroll talk is largely sandbagging. I don't think there's any way Hart comes out and announces to the world our max payroll figure.
 
striker42 said:
The investigation may conclude next week but I'd be shocked if we get any news before November though. MLB will do everything they can to avoid taking attention away from the playoffs.
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Yeah, I think end of next week marks the end of the "trial", then MLB will have a couple weeks to finalize the "sentencing" before announcing.
 
striker42 said:
The investigation may conclude next week but I'd be shocked if we get any news before November though. MLB will do everything they can to avoid taking attention away from the playoffs.
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I think he's managing expectations.

They know they aren't going to sign Darvish, Arrietta, Moustakkos etc. because there are payroll limitations.

I don't read their statements as saying they will only sign bullpen. I just think it's a statement that they aren't going to make any big splashes in free agency, which I think is a good thing.
 
To make it clear I was NOT! against trading Sean Rodriguez, just more info came out that IMO, made me feel Coppy tampered with his signing.
 
Southcack77 said:
I think he's managing expectations.

They know they aren't going to sign Darvish, Arrietta, Moustakkos etc. because there are payroll limitations.

I don't read their statements as saying they will only sign bullpen. I just think it's a statement that they aren't going to make any big splashes in free agency, which I think is a good thing.
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I read it as managing expectations as well. There are fans outside of this forum who wonder why we cannot just go out and sign Darvish and Moose since we need 3B and SP help. They look at it as adding on this year's salary and not being saddled with it the next 5 years. I would not expect hart, who is the ultimate politician to say anything different at this point.
 
Enscheff said:
LOL how does a GM lie about an opt out clause? It's either in the contract offer, or it isn't.

Expect to see this stuff until all Braves fans are convinced Coppy was the worst GM alive and solely responsible for the last 3 crappy seasons. They slammed Wren on the way out, now they will slam Coppy on the way out. Barves Way.

The FO needs that to be the case so they aren't blamed for revenues badly missing projections.
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To play devil's advocate here, it doesn't say it was someone the Braves actually signed. Coppy could have set up a meeting with a free agent and both sides had interest on completing a deal. In this situation it's possible an opt clause was verbally agreed upon in negotiations but was then never included in the contract offer. So essentially, the agent was lied to and it led to a big waste of time and possibly allowed to other potential suitors to make signings and leave the market thinner for the pitcher in question.

That being said, I am not saying I believe the reports. But certainly it wouldn't be hard to imagine a scenario where this would make sense.
 
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