Russia Collusion Scandal (aka A Leftist fantasy)

thethe said:
I think it's a reasonable deal considering radical Islam is the number 1 threat to world peace. Glad we have someone that is leading the charge to exterminate the vermin.
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I think that's a fair point. I might disagree with Trump's assessment of ISIS and Russia. But it is not crazy to want to improve ties with Russia in a bid to work more closely with them against ISIS. I have my views about this, but I don't think it is crazy. So there is an innocuous policy-driven explanation for much of what happened. It remains to be seen whether that was it or whether there was some sort of quid pro quo that went beyond those kinds of policy-driven considerations.
 
Yeah, but since the coalition offensive against ISIS was about to kick off, it seems like cutting a sweetheart deal was unnecessary. As it happened, the sanctions relief got scuttled and the offensive was successful anyway. It seems like giving a bad-faith actor our approval for the Ukraine invasion in exchange for a questionable promise of cooperation was a bad deal...which is why nobody in the government except the Trump crowd and the Dana Rohrabachers of the world wanted to do it.

So yes, the putative Grand Bargain for sanctions relief in exchange for help in Syria is the innocuous explanation. I think it's a bit of a fig leaf, though.
 
thethe said:
I think it's a reasonable deal considering radical Islam is the number 1 threat to world peace. Glad we have someone that is leading the charge to exterminate the vermin.
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That assumes that we wouldn't be fighting them otherwise. I don't really get it.
 
Julio3000 said:
Yeah, but since the coalition offensive against ISIS was about to kick off, it seems like cutting a sweetheart deal was unnecessary. As it happened, the sanctions relief got scuttled and the offensive was successful anyway. It seems like giving a bad-faith actor our approval for the Ukraine invasion in exchange for a questionable promise of cooperation was a bad deal...which is why nobody in the government except the Trump crowd and the Dana Rohrabachers of the world wanted to do it.

So yes, the putative Grand Bargain for sanctions relief in exchange for help in Syria is the innocuous explanation. I think it's a bit of a fig leaf, though.
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Well if you think that ISIS and radical Islam in general is the biggest problem out there and severe enough of the problem, then you cut a deal over Crimea, sanctions, etc. Kind of like partnering with Stalin to defeat Hitler. That's one possibility.

Another is there was a quid pro quo. Russians provide assistance (including hacking emails and leaking them) in exchange for friendly action on Crimea and sanctions.

It could also be that both were going on.

We need to find out to the extent it is possible to do so.
 
thethe said:
A global conflict requires a global response. End of story. Full stop. We need Russia to deal with this unique threat.
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Russia's in bed with most of the Middle East, radical or not. Their only qualification is that they attack other nations and not them. Otherwise any and all behavior requirements are off the table.
 
Oklahomahawk said:
Russia's in bed with most of the Middle East, radical or not. Their only qualification is that they attack other nations and not them. Otherwise any and all behavior requirements are off the table.
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Nobody has a clue of what to do right now. We need global communication and come up with a unified response. Northern Africa goes untied but in a lot of ways it's worse than syria.
 
thethe said:
A global conflict requires a global response. End of story. Full stop. We need Russia to deal with this unique threat.
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Yeah, that was the rationale when Putin used Bush's war on terror rhetoric to take the gloves off in Chechnya.

But the thing I'm missing in your analysis is that if we are in a global conflict that represents an existential threat, that threat similarly applies to Russia, right? If we have this great mutual interest, why do we need to bribe them for their cooperation?
 
Julio3000 said:
Yeah, that was the rationale when Putin used Bush's war on terror rhetoric to take the gloves off in Chechnya.

But the thing I'm missing in your analysis is that if we are in a global conflict that represents an existential threat, that threat similarly applies to Russia, right? If we have this great mutual interest, why do we need to bribe them for their cooperation?
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By because we've had an adversarial relationship with them for years which includes election meddling. So our holier than thou sanctions ring hollow to a neutral observer.

I'm glad trump is making new alliances as the world develops.
 
thethe said:
By because we've had an adversarial relationship with them for years which includes election meddling. So our holier than thou sanctions ring hollow to a neutral observer.

I'm glad trump is making new alliances as the world develops.
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America First, amirite?
 
Julio3000 said:
America First, amirite?
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From an economic perspective absolutely.

I know the tone has drastically shifted the last few days and collision seems more unlikely. You had high hopes and now they are all but destroyed. I still want you and your people to be part of the solutions moving forward though.
 
thethe said:
From an economic perspective absolutely.

I know the tone has drastically shifted the last few days and collision seems more unlikely. You had high hopes and now they are all but destroyed. I still want you and your people to be part of the solutions moving forward though.
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thethe...magnanimous in victory...gracious in defeat
 
thethe said:
From an economic perspective absolutely.

I know the tone has drastically shifted the last few days and collision seems more unlikely. You had high hopes and now they are all but destroyed. I still want you and your people to be part of the solutions moving forward though.
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That's mighty generous of you, hoss.
 
Mueller investigation cost $3.2M in its first 4 months. That's a long weekend at Mar-a-Lago for Trump and fam.
 
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