nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
The deal we gave Andrelton Simmons is an interesting comp
Year 1: $1M plus $1M bonus
Year 2: 3M
Year 3: 6M
Year 4: 8M
Year 5: 11M
Year 6: 13M (first free agent year)
Year 7: 15M
2018: The Year Of The Venezuelan Trout
- Thread starter SJ24
- Start date
The deal we gave Andrelton Simmons is an interesting comp
Year 1: $1M plus $1M bonus
Year 2: 3M
Year 3: 6M
Year 4: 8M
Year 5: 11M
Year 6: 13M (first free agent year)
Year 7: 15M
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
The difference is risk. And timing.
The later years in a contract tend to have the most risk. Not entirely true with this type of extension as Acuna is likely to improve in the first couple years of the contract. But he still could get hurt, under perform, etc.
Timing is important for the braves. We have money next year. We have a lot of young players. If we live in thethe's world in 2025 Swanson, Albies, Acuna, Freeman, Riley etc will all be worth 20+ million per year. Why not spend some of it now why we have that money? I don't believe we will sign a big FA. I think this is our way to be good.
I'd structure it so Acuna gets the present value of money and the big numbers to get excited about.
This deal guarantees 41 million. Sets him up for a potential 147 million and getting out at age 31 (32?).
2019 (PA 2): $5M
2020 (PA 3): $5M
2021 (Arb 1): $5 M
2022 (Arb 2): $5 M
2023 (Arb 3): $10M
2024 (Arb 4): $10M
2025 (FA 1): $15M option, $1M-$2M buyout
2026 (FA 2): $17M option, $1M-$2M buyout
2027: 20 million team option
2020: 25 million team option
2021: 30 million team option
I guess part of it is I would like to see some creativity.
If we did land a big FA pay him 40 million next year why people are cheap and then back it down.
And as a player who derives the bulk of his value from defense (same as Anderson and DeJong and Inciarte and Albies), he wasn't going to be paid very well in arbitration.
Acuna will be hitting HRs and compiling stats that pay well in arbitration. I expect him to go ahead and go year to year, and then sign a mega contract after 2024.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I think the Simmons deal is more of a model for what we might do with Albies after this season.
Let's try to spit ball the kind of money it would take to get Acuna to forgo arbitration, take the security of guaranteed money, and sell out a couple FA seasons in exchange for that security....
Kris Bryant is a very similar case to Acuna's from a service time standpoint, and he likely represents the absolute ceiling for Acuna's earnings over the period of team control. Bryant was just (rightfully) awarded the highest Arb1 salary in the history of MLB at nearly $11M. Over the 7 seasons the Cubs control him, he is likely to break all earning records and be paid roughly as follows:
2015 (PA1): $550k
2016 (PA2): $650k
2017 (PA3): $1M (record)
2018 (Arb1): $11M (record)
2019 (Arb2): $14M (smashing Miggy's $11.3M record from 2007)
2020 (Arb3): $17M (beating Fielder's $15.5M record from 2011)
2021 (Arb4): $20M+ (beating Price's record $19.75M)
Not including his first season, that's about 6/64 as record setting money for a player under team control. That's the absolute ceiling for Acuna if he assumes ALL risk as Bryant has done. Suggesting deals that guarantee Acuna $80M+ is completely absurd. Even guaranteeing him anywhere near $60M is out of the question.
So the contract to lock up Acuna is somewhere between DeJong's 6/26 plus 2 options, and 6/60 plus 2 options to slightly trail Bryant's projected earnings.
I'm not sure how far towards the Bryant end of that spectrum the Braves would have to go, but if Acuna posts a 4+ win 2018, I would be comfortable with the Braves extending him for something below 6/40 plus 2 options and probably closer to 6/35. How the money is broken up is inconsequential, but it will almost certainly follow the usual pattern.
Southcack77
Well-known member
Guys, the value of Acuna to the team isn’t really how much production he puts up, though that’s certainly part of it.
But the majority of his value is in the fact that the Braves don’t have to pay him his true value.
The more the Braves pay him the less his value to them and anyone else actually is.
The best value he can probably provide is for the Braves to fully screw him over and let him hit free agency.
If he doesn’t want to sign a really team friendly deal then the Braves have little motivation to do it.
If you locked up Acuna for a long time at his true market value it’s probably not something that would help the Braves much.
Talking about someone who has never played a game as if he’s the heart and soul of the franchise that has to retire a brave is just so silly.
But the majority of his value is in the fact that the Braves don’t have to pay him his true value.
The more the Braves pay him the less his value to them and anyone else actually is.
The best value he can probably provide is for the Braves to fully screw him over and let him hit free agency.
If he doesn’t want to sign a really team friendly deal then the Braves have little motivation to do it.
If you locked up Acuna for a long time at his true market value it’s probably not something that would help the Braves much.
Talking about someone who has never played a game as if he’s the heart and soul of the franchise that has to retire a brave is just so silly.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Except for Boras clients and a few others, I think most players are open to the kind of deal that gives them, their children and their grandchildren lifetime financial security. In exchange they give up some upside. I think the Braves have a pretty good chance of extenting both Albies and Acuna. And I think being able to do so is quite important in terms of extenting the team's competitive window.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
He wanted much more money than we were willing/able to offer, and signed with a big market team.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
It's also worth noting with Bryant is age often is a big part of arby agreements. I forget where I read it but similar salary in a similar age group is an argument and ryant entering his 26 year old season is different than Acuna entering his 23 year old season.
You're mostly right. I would consider offering Acuna if he looks truly legit something like a 6/70 with 4 years of triggering options worth what likely will be fair market aroung that time which probably makes the whole deal 10/180 or so.
I have never read anything that suggests player age effects arbitration salaries. They base it on games played, and the old school counting stats/awards.
The MLBPA is essentially run by the equivalent of a Coppy/Hart FO.
Kileysaurus
11:57 Do you think there is any real solution to service time manipulation? Or is all the MLBPA can do just groan at the owners and say "C'mon guys, don't be like that"
Kiley McDaniel
11:58 Until the MLBPA pushes to change the incentives for the teams, they will keep doing this to guys like Bryant and Acuna, will say it's for real reasons so they don't get sued, and there's nothing MLBPA can do b/c they got effing smoked in the last CBA, so it's only their fault. Can't blame the teams for acting in their self interest.
12:00 Having a former player without any real experience negotiating a CBA where he doesn't get any real economic goals met but instead focuses on players getting their own row on spring training buses...like c'mon guys what did you think would happen when he goes head to head with a bunch of savvy billionaires? Get a pro in there instead of a guy that looks good in a suit and says he understands you, b/c neither of those things matter for a CBA.
Kileysaurus
11:57 Do you think there is any real solution to service time manipulation? Or is all the MLBPA can do just groan at the owners and say "C'mon guys, don't be like that"
Kiley McDaniel
11:58 Until the MLBPA pushes to change the incentives for the teams, they will keep doing this to guys like Bryant and Acuna, will say it's for real reasons so they don't get sued, and there's nothing MLBPA can do b/c they got effing smoked in the last CBA, so it's only their fault. Can't blame the teams for acting in their self interest.
12:00 Having a former player without any real experience negotiating a CBA where he doesn't get any real economic goals met but instead focuses on players getting their own row on spring training buses...like c'mon guys what did you think would happen when he goes head to head with a bunch of savvy billionaires? Get a pro in there instead of a guy that looks good in a suit and says he understands you, b/c neither of those things matter for a CBA.
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
Interesting that Clark’s questionable fitness is only just now beginning to see a lot of discussion and coverage. I’m sure teams are fine with his remaining in leadership, but I’d like to read how the players are feeling.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
I don't know much about the mechanics of the MLBPA and the CBA-negotiating process, but I do know that if I were a player I would look at the history of pro sports unions and say "get me the contemporary equivalent of Marvin Miller and keep me the hell out of it." Right now it seems like there are some short circuits in the players' collective concept of what they want and how to get it.
I do think that the current generation of owners/management are far savvier than previous generations, who were more petty lords and rich hobbyists. It wouldn't as easy to roll the current contingent as it was in Miller's day, so it's all the more important for them to be setting appropriate priorities and pulling in the same direction.
I do think that the current generation of owners/management are far savvier than previous generations, who were more petty lords and rich hobbyists. It wouldn't as easy to roll the current contingent as it was in Miller's day, so it's all the more important for them to be setting appropriate priorities and pulling in the same direction.
Southcack77
Well-known member
This seems like an oversimplification. The MLBPA surely had some pretty highly paid labor attorneys giving them advice and participating in the process.
"Having a former player without any real experience negotiating a CBA where he doesn't get any real economic goals met but instead focuses on players getting their own row on spring training buses...like c'mon guys what did you think would happen when he goes head to head with a bunch of savvy billionaires? Get a pro in there instead of a guy that looks good in a suit and says he understands you, b/c neither of those things matter for a CBA."
Exhibit A as to why Kiley McDaniel can't keep a real job.
Tony Clark is a figurehead.
Exhibit A as to why Kiley McDaniel can't keep a real job.
Tony Clark is a figurehead.
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
He’s far from the only baseball pundit I’ve read recently questioning Clark’s leadership, regardless of how figurative it is or is not.
It's one thing to question TC's leadership, it's an entirely other thing to make the assertion that he's going "head to head" with the owners in negotiations.
And you don't think it hurts the MLBPA that their executive director is a figurehead who has no idea what is going on?
Does Clark have no idea what is going on, or does he have no idea how to negotiate with 'savvy billionaires'?
Two seperate beasts.
Either way, when your leader is a figurehead negotiations are harder. They just are.