Govt. Shutdown

BedellBrave said:
50, I respect you. What I don't is the homerism, "only my jersey guys do it right," ra-ra, of others who when the shoe is on the other foot would cheer the same game plan they lambast. And who conveniently never seem to see the dirty tricks of their guys. And those that think only the opposite jersey folks have "radical extremists." And I'm getting close to Hawk territory by the day.
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Come on in Bedell, the water is fine.......................
 
weso1 said:
I feel like I'm in a desert all alone with no water and vultures circling overhead.
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Weso, if you look anything like that avatar, don't worry, the buzzards will fly away. :icon_biggrin:

Bedell, I'm not too critical of either side here. They are both employing the strategies they see fit the situation. I don't particularly like the Tea Party, but it's a free country. I get tired of homerism by both sides, but I've been in the political/government game so long, it just kind of rolls off my back.

I'm a center/left consensus guy. I actually think the country is center/right when compared to the rest of the world. I think what we've seen over the past two decades is a hardening of the ends of the spectrum. I grew up on a farm and at some point, you don't debate about the hay. You bale it and haul it. Most people want predictability and security. It seems most of Washington wants job security and playing to the galleries ensures that.
 
Why do the dems have to compromise because the Rs are holding the country hostage? Rs will try to spin this against the dems but everyone knows it's on the Rs. All they have to do is remove their Obamacare provisions and it passes.

Don't take a hostage you are afraid to kill. The Rs won't kill the government and the Ds know that. Honestly the Ds could hold out and get more if they really wanted to.
 
zitothebrave said:
Why do the dems have to compromise because the Rs are holding the country hostage? Rs will try to spin this against the dems but everyone knows it's on the Rs. All they have to do is remove their Obamacare provisions and it passes.

Don't take a hostage you are afraid to kill. The Rs won't kill the government and the Ds know that. Honestly the Ds could hold out and get more if they really wanted to.
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And let's be honest, it isn't the bulk of mainstream Rs who are doing this, it's the lunatic fringe, it's just that with midterm elections coming up Speaker Boner, er Boehner is too scared to stand up to the group that embraces folks like Christine O'Donnell, Joe Wilson, Sarah Palin, and the absolute worst of all Michelle Bachman, as ""visionaries.

It would be like one fringe group from the libs taking over the whole party, such as same-sex marriage rights folks, or abortion rights folks, or global warming folks. All those groups rise and fall in popularity in the Dem party but to me they haven't gathered up the pitchforks and torches and stormed the castle like TEA party folks have the Repub party. A whole bunch of the stuff I said was going to happen a long time ago is happening and it doesn't make me happy. I'm truly worried about the future of this country and for many different reasons, not just the TEA folks.

Anyone who's interested can just do a little research into 1780's France and you'll see our future unless things are turned around and soon. The problem is I don't see anyone qualified or willing to turn anything around unless it's to nudge some of the hogs away from the trough so that their hogs can get a little closer.
 
Oklahomahawk said:
And let's be honest, it isn't the bulk of mainstream Rs who are doing this, it's the lunatic fringe, it's just that with midterm elections coming up Speaker Boner, er Boehner is too scared to stand up to the group that embraces folks like Christine O'Donnell, Joe Wilson, Sarah Palin, and the absolute worst of all Michelle Bachman, as ""visionaries.

It would be like one fringe group from the libs taking over the whole party, such as same-sex marriage rights folks, or abortion rights folks, or global warming folks. All those groups rise and fall in popularity in the Dem party but to me they haven't gathered up the pitchforks and torches and stormed the castle like TEA party folks have the Repub party. A whole bunch of the stuff I said was going to happen a long time ago is happening and it doesn't make me happy. I'm truly worried about the future of this country and for many different reasons, not just the TEA folks.

Anyone who's interested can just do a little research into 1780's France and you'll see our future unless things are turned around and soon. The problem is I don't see anyone qualified or willing to turn anything around unless it's to nudge some of the hogs away from the trough so that their hogs can get a little closer.
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Pretty succinct and accurate portrayal of the situation. Boehner is a center/right consensus guy. I don't know if it's a failure of leadership on his part or not because he's got a bunch of folks in his caucus who won't be led.

I highlighted Bachman (Hey, don't make me post the picture of me sitting next to her when she was in the Minnesota Legislature and I was testifying on one of her bills) because she is case in point of the dynamic that is causing problems in the Republican caucus. After the 2010 elections, Bachman ran for a leadership post and lost. But did she (and her cohorts) really lose? Excluded from the inner sanctum, they can go about their merry way and play to the galleries and avoid any responsibility for anything that happens. If they were in the inner sanctum, they'd have to be part of the leadership team and negotiate. So for them, it's "Why negotiate? That's Boehner's job." One of Minnesota's Republican Congressman is already feeling the heat in this scenario. Eric Paulson let it drop the other day that he thinks it's time to settle and work with the White House and Senate to make some changes to the Affordable Care Act down the road. An hour after he says that, a Tea Party-type blogger in his district starts beating the drums for mounting a challenge to Paulson from the right. Paulson is a conservative guy and he represents a moderate Republican district, but in a low-turnout primary, he could be vulnerable and the Republicans could fumble away the seat to a moderate Democrat, like they did with the US Senate seats in Delaware and Indiana last election cycle.

Hawk, I, too, ponder the future of the country. I don't know where it's heading on some days. All I know is that there needs to be a viable social contract and ours is fraying. I think the problem is more sociological (which then extends to demographics, economics, and politics) than anything else. I grew up in small town in the 1950s and 1960s and there was a shared experience within the communal sphere that helped everyone understand everyone else. It didn't lead to agreement on everything, but pretty much everyone understood where everyone else was coming from. Read Bill Bishop's The Big Sort. When like-minded people congregate in like-minded communities, walls of misunderstanding are built between communities because people have a hard time "getting" the people down the road. Add to that some of the late conservative sociologist Robert Nisbet's thoughts on the disintegration of community (which puts too much stress on families) and you've got a pretty vile brew a bubblin'. I don't know if I'll ever have time to do it, as a misspent youth and a financially-damaging divorce will require me to keep working well beyond my lucid years (I imagine some of you would argue that I am already beyond them), but I'd like to work on a book or monograph that would expand on my thesis.
 
I personally think the country would be happier if Don King were our monarch and for the State of the Union addresses, he just stood at the podium and waved two American flags.

We'd be accomplishing much more than we are now.
 
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This is getting great reviews. I guess this speaks to how much respect people have for House Republicans these days. Not a fan of it, but it amuses me that they've sunk to such a level where this is apparently cool. So Enjoy Miley's SNL music video spoofing House Republicans.

 
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