zbhargrove
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Also, I've been to Philly quite a number of times and I'm guessing you've never been to Bismarck, ND... so there's that...
2018 Offseason And Targets
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Also, I've been to Philly quite a number of times and I'm guessing you've never been to Bismarck, ND... so there's that...
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Fair, if he hits for just league average, he's a 3 WAR player. I think Waters can be a 5-tool player if it all clicks.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
I tend to Waters because I think he has more offense upside. However, both are fine prospects and not that far away.
To me, the smart thing to do would have been to trade Inciarte, play Acuna in CF and sign Brantley and McCutchen. But that ship passed.
You could have used Inciarte as part of a bigger trade, say something LIKE Incarte, Newk and a minor leaguer for Kluber.
or
Just trade Inciarte for prospects say to Cleveland for Nolan Jones and Ethan Hankins.
If you went Bradley, Acuna, McCutchen (or Acuna, Pollock, McCutchen or Brantley, Pollock, Acuna) then you have both Pache and Waters left to fill a void when one or the other of the primary three goes down OR leaves via FA - assuming Brantley on a 2 year deal. Plus, you get whatever value Inciarte brings back. AND your OF defense isn't any worse most likely overall since Markakis isn't standing out there everyday. But even IF the defense does take a short hit, the offense would far outweigh the difference.
Instead, we've got a CF with a defense first pedigree under reasonable contract in a position of near term versatility and unable to play a position of need because of his lack of a bat.
It's not like Inciarte can bat LO or steal 100 bases. He's a pretty limited player who's best asset is well above average defense at a reasonable cost. A team constructed in a different way would hide Inciarte's bat and take the defense. The Braves, due to talent and payroll limitations, really don't have that luxury. But here we are.
Southcack77
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There is this:
David O'Brien
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One #Braves coach said today that he thinks OF prospect Drew Waters could get to the majors as quickly as Acuña did. Acuña began the 2017 season in high-A, where Waters finished the 2018 season.
David O'Brien
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One #Braves coach said today that he thinks OF prospect Drew Waters could get to the majors as quickly as Acuña did. Acuña began the 2017 season in high-A, where Waters finished the 2018 season.
Southcack77
Well-known member
I think that extra year of Inciarte is going to play out a lot like the extra year of Teheran did.
I'm always open to his being traded though I have to admit it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense right now with the Braves not spending money.
If the Braves fall out of it this year, he's definitely one they need to be shopping aggressively.
I'm always open to his being traded though I have to admit it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense right now with the Braves not spending money.
If the Braves fall out of it this year, he's definitely one they need to be shopping aggressively.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Julio or Ender? Disagree about shopping Ender unless Pache and/or Waters make a massive step forward.
Ender's contract is so team friendly (the guy traded away his prime years for way way below market value) that it won't affect us like Tehearn's is.
Not to mention I don't see his defensive value falling off a cliff, and he's still a leader and mentor in more ways than Tehearn is. Tehearn is one of the quieter guys on the team and to me still feels like he's a sophomore. Whereas Ender has firmly placed himself as one of the clubhouse leaders, and the General of the Defense.
Not to mention I don't see his defensive value falling off a cliff, and he's still a leader and mentor in more ways than Tehearn is. Tehearn is one of the quieter guys on the team and to me still feels like he's a sophomore. Whereas Ender has firmly placed himself as one of the clubhouse leaders, and the General of the Defense.
If they're going to be that aggressive with Waters and Pache, it could at least partially explain why there wasn't another OF signing this winter. Will believe it when I see it though since AA keeps saying he's trying to slow things down a bit.
If Pache hits before the break and AA would finally give up an arm or two, Kluber would look awfully nice in front of Folty.
Hudson2
Well-known member
Nashville is awesome. I live about 2 hours from there.
Southcack77
Well-known member
Ender. I've always hated his extension. Whoever ends up with that guaranteed seventh year is probably not going to be super happy about it. I'd rather the cheap ass Braves not be that team.
On the other hand, they are the cheap ass Braves so upgrading him might be beyond their means.
Southcack77
Well-known member
I see Teheran and Inciarte's deals being very similar.
Ideally, the Braves should be upgrading Inciarte before the defense slips. Because it only has to slip a small bit to make him a 4th OF. And he'll be a very expensive 4th OF, which ain't great for the cheap ass Braves.
I'd like to see him moved before that happens. While a team still talks themselves into his filling a present need. But it's unrealistic when the Braves don't have in-house options and don't have dollars.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Although Pache and Waters COULD move fast, it is pretty unlikely they zip through the system like Albies and Acuna did. That kind of rate of advancement is fairly unusual.
More likely Pache spends most of this year in AA and most of next year in AAA, with Waters a level below him pretty much the whole way.
Under that scenario Pache takes over in center in 2021 (his age 22 season). Inciarte will be 30 by then and in the last guaranteed year of his contract (at a salary of $8M). We can trade him then or move him to a corner spot. But for 2019 and 2020 we do not exactly have a surplus of major league outfielders. If we traded Ender during this period, it would create a hole in the major league lineup that would probably require trading for or signing a replacement.
More likely Pache spends most of this year in AA and most of next year in AAA, with Waters a level below him pretty much the whole way.
Under that scenario Pache takes over in center in 2021 (his age 22 season). Inciarte will be 30 by then and in the last guaranteed year of his contract (at a salary of $8M). We can trade him then or move him to a corner spot. But for 2019 and 2020 we do not exactly have a surplus of major league outfielders. If we traded Ender during this period, it would create a hole in the major league lineup that would probably require trading for or signing a replacement.
Southcack77
Well-known member
Yeah, I've always enjoyed Nashville. Had friends that lived there a long while. Even ruling out the (still very fun) tourist traps it's a super livable place.
Understand, it's a hell of a dining city now too.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
What, his contract is one of the best contracts in baseball right now.
Next 4 years he's at 5.7, 7.7, 8.7 and 9 mil non guaranteed. His contract is fine, sure he could/should hit better but his contract isnt an issue.
So in this scenario the Indians trade away one of their top SPs in the middle of a playoff season?
I find that highly unlikely.
Been thinking about this offseason some more and trying to figure out what I’m missing here. The boring offseason and the Bridges firing don’t really line up to me.
When AA got hired, he didn’t do anything last offseason because he said he wanted to take time to learn the farm system. That’s fine, I think we all understood that since we didn’t have high expectations anyway. So he learned about it all year, leading into this offseason.
He trades no one. Like, literally not a single person. So either he:
A) Thinks our farm system is full of studs and loves where this thing is going long term. And if that’s the case, why was Bridges fired? Fangraphs has 11 of our top 15 prospects as guys Bridges drafted.
Or
B) Thinks our farm system is overrated and not as good as prospect writers do, so Bridges is gone for that performance reasons. This seems really unlikely because I’m sure he would’ve actually made trades and sold high on guys if that was the case.
When AA got hired, he didn’t do anything last offseason because he said he wanted to take time to learn the farm system. That’s fine, I think we all understood that since we didn’t have high expectations anyway. So he learned about it all year, leading into this offseason.
He trades no one. Like, literally not a single person. So either he:
A) Thinks our farm system is full of studs and loves where this thing is going long term. And if that’s the case, why was Bridges fired? Fangraphs has 11 of our top 15 prospects as guys Bridges drafted.
Or
B) Thinks our farm system is overrated and not as good as prospect writers do, so Bridges is gone for that performance reasons. This seems really unlikely because I’m sure he would’ve actually made trades and sold high on guys if that was the case.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Yeah i'm not sure either, i thought he'd make one trade but it's hard to read what AA thinks. Not all the prospects will pan out and you gotta move some while they're at peak value. But given how quiet AA works, it's hard to know who they've been involved in. Hate Coppy or not, at least he said who he was interested in, it's a guessing game with AA.
Its clear trades could have been made so hos internal valuations were higher than other organizations. To me that indicates hes very positive on the talent. AA has a right to create the organization he wants but firing someone who had such an excellent track record is currently a puzzler.
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