What to do with Uggla now?

Second base was not a safe place to be in the Braves organization last year. We went through Uggla, DeWitt, Pena and Pastornicky. The last three to season-ending injuries and Uggla to eyesight/age-related decline issues.

Not too many organizations can go through the first four guys on the depth chart at any given position and come out of that ok. It is easy in retrospect to say Wren should have been more aggressive in making a trade for a second-baseman. But it is worth keeping in mind that Pastornicky's injury was in mid-August, which was after the trade deadline. Also I don't think anyone expected Uggla to hit worse after the Lasik surgery.

If there is a lesson though from last year, it is that you want to take action once your depth is eroded by season-ending injuries. We got hit hard in two areas last year. Second base and left-handed relief. In both cases Wren dawdled. Poor Luis Avilan got run into the ground after Venters and EOF went down. If you are a contending team, I think you want to act more quickly when those kinds of holes open up in your depth chart. That way you avoid a situation where another injury happens after the trade deadline and you are stuck trying to pick up the likes of Elliot Johnson off the waiver wire.
 
nsacpi said:
Second base was not a safe place to be in the Braves organization last year. We went through Uggla, DeWitt, Pena and Pastornicky. The last three to season-ending injuries and Uggla to eyesight/age-related decline issues.

Not too many organizations can go through the first four guys on the depth chart at any given position and come out of that ok. It is easy in retrospect to say Wren should have been more aggressive in making a trade for a second-baseman. But it is worth keeping in mind that Pastornicky's injury was in mid-August, which was after the trade deadline. Also I don't think anyone expected Uggla to hit worse after the Lasik surgery.

If there is a lesson though from last year, it is that you want to take action once your depth is eroded by season-ending injuries. We got hit hard in two areas last year. Second base and left-handed relief. In both cases Wren dawdled. Poor Luis Avilan got run into the ground after Venters and EOF went down. If you are a contending team, I think you want to act more quickly when those kinds of holes open up in your depth chart. That way you avoid a situation where another injury happens after the trade deadline and you are stuck trying to pick up the likes of Elliot Johnson off the waiver wire.
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Well said.
 
MLB Hot Stove;

Phillips has been promised he will be traded this winter. Yankees and Braves have shown interest. Heyman says Yankees are doing due diligence in the event Cano doesnt come back. Said Cincy wants lots of young talent. Same thing we heard from Arizona last winter.
 
PawPawMaxwell said:
MLB Hot Stove;

Phillips has been promised he will be traded this winter. Yankees and Braves have shown interest. Heyman says Yankees are doing due diligence in the event Cano doesnt come back. Said Cincy wants lots of young talent. Same thing we heard from Arizona last winter.
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I'm not sure how much talent they can expect in exchange for the right to pay BP to be terrible 3-4 years from now. Trading for Phillips only makes sense if Uggla goes the other way, or the Reds eat a big chunk of money.
 
Enscheff said:
I'm not sure how much talent they can expect in exchange for the right to pay BP to be terrible 3-4 years from now. Trading for Phillips only makes sense if Uggla goes the other way, or the Reds eat a big chunk of money.
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Question: The money between Uggla and Phillips for the next 2 years is almost a wash, that being a given do you think

1. Phillips will digress to the point of being worth less in 2016 and 17 than Uggla was in 2012 and 13.

2. Do you think Phillips will digress to the point that in 2016 and 17 he would be untradeable and would he be so worthless that we would have to eat the last 2 years of his contract a la Uggla?
 
PawPawMaxwell said:
Question: The money between Uggla and Phillips for the next 2 years is almost a wash, that being a given do you think

1. Phillips will digress to the point of being worth less in 2016 and 17 than Uggla was in 2012 and 13.

2. Do you think Phillips will digress to the point that in 2016 and 17 he would be untradeable and would he be so worthless that we would have to eat the last 2 years of his contract a la Uggla?
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Highly doubtful given Dat Dude's defensive value. While we're seeing projections of eating $10-ish million per to move Uggla, Phillips would still hold much more defensive value along with at least a little more potential upside at that point. In the event his offense fell off a similar cliff as Uggla's has, you'd still likely be able to get someone to give you a B prospect and pay $10-$12 million of the last two years of his deal.
 
I'm slowly but surely climbing on the Phillips bandwagon.

Let's just hope Jocketty doesn't rape us again à la JD Drew.
 
PawPawMaxwell said:
Question: The money between Uggla and Phillips for the next 2 years is almost a wash, that being a given do you think

1. Phillips will digress to the point of being worth less in 2016 and 17 than Uggla was in 2012 and 13.

2. Do you think Phillips will digress to the point that in 2016 and 17 he would be untradeable and would he be so worthless that we would have to eat the last 2 years of his contract a la Uggla?
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While I don't think Phillips will fall to Uggla's level (based solely on his defensive superiority and the fact that nobody can possibly be as bad as Uggla was this year) he will almost certainly be untradeable in 2017, and maybe even in 2016. The point for the Reds would be to swap a large 4 year deal for a large 2 year deal and be rid of it that much faster.

The point of a Phillips/Uggla trade is simply to kick the problem down the road 2-3 years while getting production from 2B NOW while the Braves are WS contenders. And make no mistake, BP's contract WILL be a problem in 2017, and probably 2016.

I would much rather see 2 years of Kendrick plus 2 years of Uggla over 4 years of BP.
 
CrimsonCowboy said:
My opinion still has not changed. I still don't believe we're going to see this happen.
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Probably not but I doubt there will be many players in the trade market for Phillips for the same reasons (kinda) they will shy from Uggla--Money.

But the one main thing you need to remember is Phillips called the owner a liar. Liberty probably would fart it off, I doubt a billionaire owner with ego will look as askance at such comments.
 
From MLBTradeRumors:

•The Rangers have let other teams know they are willing to at least talk about one of their middle infielders -- Elvis Andrus, Ian Kinsler, or Jurickson Profar -- in any trade discussions that come up this offseason, writes MLB.com's T.R. Sullivan. Industry sources say the club doesn't feel a sense of urgency to move any of the three, but they're keeping an open mind as they have other areas of need to address.

While Profar would obviously cost a ton to get, he is one I would strongly consider giving up a ton for.
 
skillet said:
From MLBTradeRumors:

•The Rangers have let other teams know they are willing to at least talk about one of their middle infielders -- Elvis Andrus, Ian Kinsler, or Jurickson Profar -- in any trade discussions that come up this offseason, writes MLB.com's T.R. Sullivan. Industry sources say the club doesn't feel a sense of urgency to move any of the three, but they're keeping an open mind as they have other areas of need to address.

While Profar would obviously cost a ton to get, he is one I would strongly consider giving up a ton for.
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But we dont have the ton that they are looking for. Mainly an corner OFer or catcher.
 
skillet said:
From MLBTradeRumors:

•The Rangers have let other teams know they are willing to at least talk about one of their middle infielders -- Elvis Andrus, Ian Kinsler, or Jurickson Profar -- in any trade discussions that come up this offseason, writes MLB.com's T.R. Sullivan. Industry sources say the club doesn't feel a sense of urgency to move any of the three, but they're keeping an open mind as they have other areas of need to address.

While Profar would obviously cost a ton to get, he is one I would strongly consider giving up a ton for.
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Andrus and Kinsler have HUGE contracts and Andrus is signed through 2022 and Kinsler through 2018. Unless the upper stratosphere of big budget teams get involved, I don't see how the Rangers can move those two without sending some cash along to lighten the contract load. The Andrus contract is pretty ridiculous.

PS--I stay away from Phillips.
 
If the only options of ridding the team of Uggla were simply release him and eat 26M or trade him for Phillips (even up to keep it simple) what would you do??
 
PawPawMaxwell said:
If the only options of ridding the team of Uggla were simply release him and eat 26M or trade him for Phillips (even up to keep it simple) what would you do??
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That depends on what wren thinks the future of the team is. How long can we keep this group together. Philips would make us better today but hurt our chances to keep younger players. If wren feels we cant sign them anyways then go for it.
 
PawPawMaxwell said:
If the only options of ridding the team of Uggla were simply release him and eat 26M or trade him for Phillips (even up to keep it simple) what would you do??
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Pastornicky should be ready by spring, so with that in mind I would cut him if I couldn't find anyone that would take him in trade for anything that wouldn't cost the team much money. I would just eat what ever part of his salary that I had to and use Pastornicky until a better option came along. La Stella is playing good in AZ so I think he might be ready next season, but if not, surly he will be ready to come up by mid season. That's who I would use, just in my opinion anyway.
 
Lenny said:
Pastornicky should be ready by spring, so with that in mind I would cut him if I couldn't find anyone that would take him in trade for anything that wouldn't cost the team much money. I would just eat what ever part of his salary that I had to and use Pastornicky until a better option came along. La Stella is playing good in AZ so I think he might be ready next season, but if not, surly he will be ready to come up by mid season. That's who I would use, just in my opinion anyway.
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Be careful of that Kool-Aid in the front row.
 
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