Impeachment

Speaking of Epstein, Barr today said it was the "perfect storm of screw-ups". Huge lol.

Just remember, Barr and Trump both have a connection and history to Epstein. Trump's was arguably just as strong as Bill's. They wanted him dead just as bad as Bill or Andrew. The fact the memes I see online are 99% hillary killed epstein memes, just goes to show you how well the Trump/Russian propaganda machine can work.
 
thethe said:
Patriotism is becoming socialist I guess?

If the GOP doesn't unite under this administration then the dive into socialism will be extreme.
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I learned today that Hugo Boss designed Nazi uniforms. Nestlé used slave labor from concentration camps. Bayer helped manufacture zyklon b. Chase Bank froze accounts of Jews during the war. IBM helped schedule the trains.

Considering how quick you are to throw out the anti-semite card whenever someone criticizes Israel's gubment, how do you live with yourself knowing at one point you probably patronized one of these companies with your money?

If being against giving corporations and the top of the top more money and by default more power is socialist... well ok. If socialism is wanting to hold Zuckerberg accountable for letting propaganda run wild on his website... then ok.
 
The Chosen One said:
I learned today that Hugo Boss designed Nazi uniforms. Nestlé used slave labor from concentration camps. Bayer helped manufacture zyklon b. Chase Bank froze accounts of Jews during the war. IBM helped schedule the trains.

Considering how quick you are to throw out the anti-semite card whenever someone criticizes Israel's gubment, how do you live with yourself knowing at one point you probably patronized one of these companies with your money?

If being against giving corporations and the top of the top more money and by default more power is socialist... well ok. If socialism is wanting to hold Zuckerberg accountable for letting propaganda run wild on his website... then ok.
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I've been on record numerous occasions that I think big corporations are actually anti capitalistic. That doesn't mean everyone, including the third world, deserves free health care and my ETR should be 45-50. I also dont want the ability to defend my family against criminals taken away from me and insure as hell dont want my ability to Express myself free to be stripped.
 
Republicans have sought for weeks amid the impeachment inquiry to shift attention to President Trump’s demands that Ukraine investigate any 2016 election meddling, defending it as a legitimate concern while Democrats accuse Mr. Trump of pursuing fringe theories for his benefit.

The Republican defense of Mr. Trump became central to the impeachment proceedings when Fiona Hill, a respected Russia scholar and former senior White House official, added a harsh critique during testimony on Thursday. She told some of Mr. Trump’s fiercest defenders in Congress that they were repeating “a fictional narrative” — and that it likely came from a disinformation campaign by Russian security services, which themselves propagated it.

In a briefing that closely aligned with Dr. Hill’s testimony, American intelligence officials informed senators and their aides in recent weeks that Russia had engaged in a yearslong campaign to essentially frame Ukraine as responsible for Moscow’s own hacking of the 2016 election, according to three American officials. The briefing came as Republicans stepped up their defenses of Mr. Trump in the Ukraine affair.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/22/...tion=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

to "fictional narrative", "confirmation bias" and "lie", we can add "Russian disinformation campaign"
 
nsacpi said:
That's such a dodge
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It's not really.

My personal belief is that pretty much any politician on the national level will tell any lie at any time if they think it will help them. In order to get to that level you generally can't have scruples. If you have them, you'll end up with a knife in you that was placed there by a rival who wont think twice.

I also feel there are a fair number of politicians who are zealots. They are people who view their political stances as if they were religious dogma. These are the people who latch on to anything they hear that confirms their beliefs and believe unquestioningly. They are so zealous in their political belief that anything confirming their position is a priori true.

One trait shared by virtually everyone in Washington is solipsism. A belief that they are the only thing that really matters. It's also something that helps people get elected. It's a lot easier to hit people up for donations and self promote when you're the only thing of value in the universe. This kind of person is much more prone to believing anything that benefits them as being true.

I have terribly low expectations of politicians. Everything playing out is pretty much exactly on the level I expect.
 
nsacpi said:
Republicans have sought for weeks amid the impeachment inquiry to shift attention to President Trump’s demands that Ukraine investigate any 2016 election meddling, defending it as a legitimate concern while Democrats accuse Mr. Trump of pursuing fringe theories for his benefit.

The Republican defense of Mr. Trump became central to the impeachment proceedings when Fiona Hill, a respected Russia scholar and former senior White House official, added a harsh critique during testimony on Thursday. She told some of Mr. Trump’s fiercest defenders in Congress that they were repeating “a fictional narrative” — and that it likely came from a disinformation campaign by Russian security services, which themselves propagated it.

In a briefing that closely aligned with Dr. Hill’s testimony, American intelligence officials informed senators and their aides in recent weeks that Russia had engaged in a yearslong campaign to essentially frame Ukraine as responsible for Moscow’s own hacking of the 2016 election, according to three American officials. The briefing came as Republicans stepped up their defenses of Mr. Trump in the Ukraine affair.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/22/...tion=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

to "fictional narrative", "confirmation bias" and "lie", we can add "Russian disinformation campaign"
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Hill's testimony was interesting. To me, it actually cut against the impeachment narrative the Dems have been trying to piece together. That Trump used his official power to try to leverage a foreign government into harming a political opponent for purely self-serving ends. Hill's impression appears to have been that Trump ignored his advisers telling him it was Russia and gone all in on the idea that Ukraine was behind the hacking and Biden was involved in a corrupt deal.

While this would serve to make what Trump did less severe than if he knew all that was false and pushed for the investigations anyway, it actually raises what I feel is a bigger concern, that is Trump going rogue. I'd rather have a President that knows what he's pushing is just a pretense than one who actually believes in the wild theories over the objections of advisers. The former is imminently predictable and wont push the system to the breaking point. Who knows what the loose cannon will do.
 
thethe said:
Sure...zero evidence other than the origins of misfud and stefan halper. Just because you dont care enough to research doesn't mean the evidence isnt out there.

And for clarity...russian hacks weren't proven. Despite that glaring omission, was the trump campaign supposed to ignore the damning Wikileaks releases? What world do you live in?
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The investigations of our government and other countries suggest otherwise.
 
striker42 said:
I'd rather have a President that knows what he's pushing is just a pretense than one who actually believes in the wild theories over the objections of advisers. The former is imminently predictable and wont push the system to the breaking point. Who knows what the loose cannon will do.
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Trump knows the difference but only pushes narratives that promote his perceived interests/reality, like most good politicians. Trump just doesn't seem to have any line he won't cross.
 
thethe said:
Remember a time when trump being spied on was a conspiracy.

Or that there were biased fbi agents in Mueller team.
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I always assumed the FBI and CIA were smart enough to know Trump needed to be watched closely, legally or not.

FBI agents are biased against criminals but they are professionals and I believe for the most part they rigorously follow the law. Trump knows this and that's why he saw them as a enemy from the start.
 
thethe said:
I've been on record numerous occasions that I think big corporations are actually anti capitalistic. That doesn't mean everyone, including the third world, deserves free health care and my ETR should be 45-50. I also dont want the ability to defend my family against criminals taken away from me and insure as hell dont want my ability to Express myself free to be stripped.
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I think everyone, including the Third World, deserves health care.
 
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