It’s what I would do. Keep him down until May next season to gain the extra year. If we’re going to have him on Opening Day 2021, then he should absolutely come up now as there’s no difference. But since they haven’t brought him up I’d assume AA wants that extra year of control and will play the time game in 2021.
Around the League 2020 Edition
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sturg33
I
Yes hold him down two weeks next year as well.
sturg33
I
the playoff structure all but assures that the Braves will make the playoffs assuming moderate health.
There is no guarantee Pache would be an offensive improvement anyway... so you're giving up a year of service time to get him for 35 games in a season that may not play out and he may not offer a substantial upgrade.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
That is silly though. Everyone knows a new CBA is coming and service time is a hot topic. It will most likely change.
PawPawMaxwell
Called Up to the Major Leagues
Agree totally with this point. Also consider the future of MILB, Braves return to viable draft situation. No need to even think of control years at this point in time. If Pache can adequately replace Ender, bring him up and someone will take Ender at minimum salary.
I think at this point we absolutely need to focus on service time. I highly doubt Liberty is going to give us the spending freedom we’ve enjoyed the past couple of years, given the financial situation the club and company are in. I would expect a severe purse tightening over the next 5-7 years, so making sure we have as many years of control over our young players is vitally important. If we’re only talking about an adequate replacement of Ender, what’s the point of losing an entire year of control. Now, if Pache was an Acuna or Vlad Jr level prospect and could be brought up with the expectation of being 3-5 WAR better than Ender, then the argument should be pushed to lose that extra year. But I think we can all agree that Pache isn’t going to absolutely light up the world upon his call up, will be more defensive and small ball oriented, and won’t be that much better than what we’ve already got over the only 38 games left in the season. Keep him down this year, leave him down a few weeks next year, gain the extra year, then bring him up. Especially if we’re going to be going back to being a 115-125M payroll team.
PawPawMaxwell
Called Up to the Major Leagues
My point has nothing to do with Liberty Media or current service time rules. It has to do with the coming, new CBA and MLB stance on minor leagues in the future. And dont dismiss expansion.
I understand where you’re coming from, but we’re operating under the current CBA right now, and there’s no guarantees of any changes with the new CBA. There can be all kinds of rumors and thoughts, but they’re all conjecture at this point and teams need to operate under the current deal right now. And to summarily reject the teams finances or the current service time rules is absurd as those are very real issues.
Southcack77
Well-known member
Either you are trying to win this year or you are not.
If you are trying to win and you believe that Pache can help you win, then you have already saved the year of control you should be concerned with.
If you are not trying to win or you do not believe that Pache can help you win now, then "saving" a year of control is still a valid concern.
The "can Pache help you win" concern is actually the question. It's true that he would be hard pressed to be worse than Ender, but if he's not going to be a positive player overall you might as well let Ender muck around and pray he resuscitates. Until you get healthy and can just play Acuña in CF.
PawPawMaxwell
Called Up to the Major Leagues
I think that the SP situation is much more important than any potential wins that a player like Pache can up in the win column.
A win is a win - doesn't matter where it comes from.
If Erlin/Tomlin/Matzek continue to pitch better than Wright and Touki, you adjust the rotation accordingly.
PawPawMaxwell
Called Up to the Major Leagues
I understand what you are posing and I am not rejecting anything about the current situation. However I do think that it is very likely that the forthcoming CBA has played a big role in the negotiations to get the current season going. The MLBPA go their players some COVID relief money and MLB owners got some 2020 income. What else comes out is still unknown. As an aside, I live in a town that just put up a $38M plus overruns stadium that got 1 year of use and now sets useless with the future of MILB in question.
Unfortunately myself and other taxpayers will have to pay up either way, it just a matter of how much today.
PawPawMaxwell
Called Up to the Major Leagues
Has any of those pitchers you seem to venerate pitched more than 4 innings in a single game this year? Do you really want to go into any post season play withthose rose colored glasses?
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
I am more on the side of bringing up whoever can help and whoever we need to get a good read on. We have the extra year now on any prospects that don’t already have service time. So we need to have these guys contributing.
This COVID stuff will eventually go away and the battery will be buzzing again. But we have to have a fun and exciting team that is winning. If we are a middle of the pack team then we are in trouble with that debt load. We really need to see if we can rely on some of these young guys sooner rather than later.
This COVID stuff will eventually go away and the battery will be buzzing again. But we have to have a fun and exciting team that is winning. If we are a middle of the pack team then we are in trouble with that debt load. We really need to see if we can rely on some of these young guys sooner rather than later.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
Agree to some extent. But I would like to know who is real and who needs to be replaced via FA. Next years budget won’t be great imo. So if we see pache and think he might work. Well that is one less spot we have to fill. We are getting a good picture this year that several pitchers are not going to help us next year. We also are seeing 3B is bad.
I would like to see Weigel, Davidson, Anderson and Muller all to get some work in.
You're missing the point entirely - and taking the playoffs for granted. The current 7-9 hitters can't hit major league pitching. Luckily you presently have a likely improvement for one of those spots in-house in Pache without making a trade. That still leaves you with an absolute black hole at 3B and without two of your best hitters. The guys Erlin/Matzek/Tomlin might be replacing have ERAs of 7.27 (Touki) and 7.20 (Wright).
IF you're treading water and HOPING that something clicks for Touki/Wright/Wilson and that you get Hamels back and that Folty somehow finds something by then - if that doesn't happen, Erlin/Matzek/Tomlin would be better options to start a playoff game, yes. There's nothing rose-colored about that - it sucks. For now you simply have to use whatever players you can in whatever roles they can help you in and hope to qualify for the playoffs and that things are better at that point. You don't have the luxury of saying "Everything will be better once Ozzie and Acuna are back - then we'll get rolling" because you just don't know when that might be and the season's almost 40% gone. The deadline is in exactly two weeks. That means you'll get to see 2 more starts from Wright and Touki, maybe 3.
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
why? What do you think Pache is going to hit? B/c I think he's going to have a 300 or so OBP.
I think an OF of Acuna, Neck and Duvall could be better than an OF of Acuna, Pache, Neck or Duvall. Pache makes it much better defensively but he may not hit at 21 in a screwy season. He may come up and hit like Swanson or Riley and then fall off. I don't see anyone saying Pache is a stud with the bat. And that really worries me considering you are calling up a 21 yo in a weird season. What if he has ongoing issues from being rushed?
Southcack77
Well-known member
Either you are trying or you aren't.
If you're trying, then any incremental improvement is worth chasing.
Regardless of whether you felt like you were the favorite.
If you're trying, then any incremental improvement is worth chasing.
Regardless of whether you felt like you were the favorite.
UNCBlue012
Well-known member
There are a tough of black and white asumptions in this thread that simply aren't true.