Georgia Senate Runoff

striker42 said:
I will say this about Warnock. I'm very much against clergy running for political office, especially higher offices like the house and senate. When a leader wears a political mantle as well as one of religious authority, they present a special kind of threat. I'm not saying electing Warnock will make him a dictator, I'm just against even starting that blending.

I think when Warnock decided to run for office he should have left the clergy.
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I think if you make it as high as senator, you leave the clergy by default. I don't think anyone can hold a position that high, and not end up becoming corrupt.
 
nsacpi said:
What is involved in leaving the clergy. I'm familiar with the case of the prime minister of a small country who took a leave of absence from his pastoral duties to focus on his political activities. Is leave of absence sufficient. For someone with the calling, is it even possible to "leave the clergy."

A little history on clergy who have served in Congress:

https://www.pewforum.org/2015/01/05/history-of-clergy-in-congress/

I would add as an observation that in some religions the distinction between clergy and lay people is blurry. Mitt Romney for example has been bishop of the ward for Belmont, Massachusetts, and president of the Boston stake.

Some Christian denominations believe in the universal priesthood. Are all their members to refrain from seeking political office.
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It's possible to leave the clergy. In some groups you have a highly organized clergy you can quit. In other cases it's more how you characterize yourself. In either case, I think the line is considering yourself having left the clergy and stepping down from any positions of religious leadership.

And the line between lay people and clergy can definitely get a little fuzzy. I'm less concerned about the gray areas and more concerned about those who are still religious leaders and maintain the mantle of religious authority while serving in high political positions.

While there have no doubt been members of the clergy in Congress going back to the beginning, it's something that I think needs to be moved away from in modern times.
 
striker42 said:
It's possible to leave the clergy. In some groups you have a highly organized clergy you can quit. In other cases it's more how you characterize yourself. In either case, I think the line is considering yourself having left the clergy and stepping down from any positions of religious leadership.

And the line between lay people and clergy can definitely get a little fuzzy. I'm less concerned about the gray areas and more concerned about those who are still religious leaders and maintain the mantle of religious authority while serving in high political positions.

While there have no doubt been members of the clergy in Congress going back to the beginning, it's something that I think needs to be moved away from in modern times.
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So if a member of the clergy took a leave of absence or resigned from his or her current position is that sufficient to count as "leaving the clergy"? Or does the person have to promise never to again deliver a sermon?
 
msstate7 said:
I think if you make it as high as senator, you leave the clergy by default. I don't think anyone can hold a position that high, and not end up becoming corrupt.
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I would say the overwhelming majority of politicians are NOT corrupt. Even the ones I strongly disagree with.
 
I also think not having clergy in positions of political power should happen to protect religious institutions as well. It's not just about someone using their religious authority to gain political power, it's about the bleeding of their politics into their religious teachings. What happens if your party's views on things like abortion, capital punishment, free exercise, homosexuality, etc. come in conflict with your religion's teachings on those subjects? If you are required to maintain a certain political orthodoxy to be elected, how can you still preach your religion's teachings on those subjects? It puts pressure on you to try to change what your religion says.
 
nsacpi said:
So if a member of the clergy took a leave of absence or resigned from his or her current position is that sufficient to count as "leaving the clergy"? Or does the person have to promise never to again deliver a sermon?
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I think they would need to resign from any positions of religious leadership and also consider themselves to not be part of the clergy while serving. I think that's the big two things. If after you leave office you want to rejoin the clergy, by all means do so. I just think the two jobs together present issues. Either lead politically or lead religiously. Not both.
 
Plenty of clergy signed the Declaration and Constitution. Including faith in American politics is as old as America. Including politics in our faith is a more recent phenomenon, and more dangerous on multiple levels.
 
nsacpi said:
I would say the overwhelming majority of politicians are NOT corrupt. Even the ones I strongly disagree with.
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I think most all US senators/HOR are either corrupt or on the path to it. Power corrupts imo. When I say corrupt, I think they put lobbyists and self interests over the ones they represent.
 
msstate7 said:
I think most all US senators/HOR are either corrupt or on the path to it. Power corrupts imo. When I say corrupt, I think they put lobbyists and self interests over the ones they represent.
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ok...by that definition most are corrupt...almost everyone caters to special interests one way or another...however, that definition does encompass a very wide range of practices
 
The only line worth reading on the Warnock incident is the wife telling the police he's the greatest actor....
 
Tapate50 said:
The only line worth reading on the Warnock incident is the wife telling the police he's the greatest actor....
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yeah...i had the same reaction...i'm hoping the media does a deep-dive into that one...would not want a thespian in the senate!

the other reaction i had is that she was NOT acting...she really was distressed...but it also occurred to me that the distress might have been over her husband driving off with their children after an argument...having gone through one i can say divorce is the biggest waste of money and emotional energy in the world
 
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nsacpi said:
yeah...i had the same reaction...i'm hoping the media does a deep-dive into that one...would not want a thespian in the senate!

the other reaction i had is that she was NOT acting...she really was distressed...but it also occurred to me that the distress might have been over her husband driving off with their children after an argument...having gone through one i can say divorce is the biggest waste of money and emotional energy in the world
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Or a relief bill through the legislature
 
striker42 said:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/great-actor-warnocks-wife-domestic-dispute

Similar story is on AJC behind the paywall if the source is concerning to anyone.

Honest question, should his wife automatically be believed or should he be given the benefit of the doubt?

I'm interested to see if people on all sides will be consistent with what they said in the Kavanaugh hearing.

Personally, I don't think this should be held against him without some corroborating evidence. I think a presumption of innocence is important on more places than just the courtroom.
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Don't you worry Twitter is blocking the sharing of the video so we can have another uninformed electorate.
 
Tapate50 said:
The only line worth reading on the Warnock incident is the wife telling the police he's the greatest actor....
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I’m not worried about it. My dad is a lawyer and handled a lot of divorces while I was growing up. I learned people going through divorces can be crazy and that includes some who you knew and thought we’re level headed before. If there isn’t evidence I will take it with a grain of salt.

Of course even if it were true I don’t vote based on personal conduct. I vote based on what I think someone will do with the office.
 
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