Is Free Speech Under Attack in this Country?

nsacpi said:
Stalin killed more.

See Ukrainian famine (state-sponsored starvation).
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I don't have the powers of the Almighty, but I can easily conjecture that Stalin and Hitler are playing marathon cribbage in Hell. It's really interesting. Because Russia was an ally in WWII, there was a lot of looking the other way up until the end of the war, when everything turned on a dime and the Germans (outside of high-ranking Nazis) were brought into the fold and Russia became the evil empire incarnate. Lenin clearly ran a regime of state-sponsored terrorism against a large portion of the Russian people and in the ethnic states that surrounded Russia and became part of the USSR, but Stalin ramped it way up. He probably killed more Jews than Hitler did.
 
50PoundHead said:
I don't have the powers of the Almighty, but I can easily conjecture that Stalin and Hitler are playing marathon cribbage in Hell. It's really interesting. Because Russia was an ally in WWII, there was a lot of looking the other way up until the end of the war, when everything turned on a dime and the Germans (outside of high-ranking Nazis) were brought into the fold and Russia became the evil empire incarnate. Lenin clearly ran a regime of state-sponsored terrorism against a large portion of the Russian people and in the ethnic states that surrounded Russia and became part of the USSR, but Stalin ramped it way up. He probably killed more Jews than Hitler did.
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The Red Tsar. One of the best biographies I've read.

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nsacpi said:
Stalin killed more.

See Ukrainian famine (state-sponsored starvation).
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I konw, the Ukrainian Famine was terrible, but the high on that isn't close to the low on USSR Civilian Casualties during WWII not including military casualties. Hitler's war resulted in as I said 35-40 million dead Soviets,

And the death toll for Nazi Genocides rank right there.

Nazism is the cruelest evil we've experienced in the last century.
 
I feel like when you discuss Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao, and Pol Pot, who was the most evil becomes something of a philosophical debate. The Nazis caused the most intense killing the world has likely ever seen. They mechanized death in a way no one else ever has. However the longevity and spread of Communism has caused a much, much higher body count.

In any event, you have solid arguments for both Nazis and Communists as being the greater evil. Let's hope the world never again count deaths caused by authoritarian regimes in the millions.
 
striker42 said:
I feel like when you discuss Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao, and Pol Pot, who was the most evil becomes something of a philosophical debate. The Nazis caused the most intense killing the world has likely ever seen. They mechanized death in a way no one else ever has. However the longevity and spread of Communism has caused a much, much higher body count.

In any event, you have solid arguments for both Nazis and Communists as being the greater evil. Let's hope the world never again count deaths caused by authoritarian regimes in the millions.
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But why do we think the communist ideas are so freely embraced by young people in this country
 
striker42 said:
BBC is one of the few news organizations I have any respect left for. It's generally my go to place for news. I just wish they had more coverage.
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A lot of Brits seems to have a beef with them.

I grew up with BBC radio, as a colonial subject in a distant outpost of a downsizing empire. Note well the word subject not citizen.
 
I should know better than to read twitter. People keep using the TERRIBLE line that it's not cancel culture it's "consequences for your actions."

So, suppose I start a well organized group that is based on the idea that The Last Jedi is terrible. We use our collective voice on social media to boycott any company associated with anyone who said they liked the movie. We bully companies into firing and ostracizing those who raved about how good the movie was. Is this people suffering the consequences of their actions or is it cancel culture?

Ultimately cancel culture is people organizing on social media to pressure companies into punishing individuals for speech they don't like. I find that more repugnant than the worst speech spewed by anyone who has been cancelled.
 
striker42 said:
I should know better than to read twitter. People keep using the TERRIBLE line that it's not cancel culture it's "consequences for your actions."

So, suppose I start a well organized group that is based on the idea that The Last Jedi is terrible. We use our collective voice on social media to boycott any company associated with anyone who said they liked the movie. We bully companies into firing and ostracizing those who raved about how good the movie was. Is this people suffering the consequences of their actions or is it cancel culture?

Ultimately cancel culture is people organizing on social media to pressure companies into punishing individuals for speech they don't like. I find that more repugnant than the worst speech spewed by anyone who has been cancelled.
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Its polite society bringing them consequences for their actions
 
striker42 said:
I should know better than to read twitter. People keep using the TERRIBLE line that it's not cancel culture it's "consequences for your actions."

So, suppose I start a well organized group that is based on the idea that The Last Jedi is terrible. We use our collective voice on social media to boycott any company associated with anyone who said they liked the movie. We bully companies into firing and ostracizing those who raved about how good the movie was. Is this people suffering the consequences of their actions or is it cancel culture?

Ultimately cancel culture is people organizing on social media to pressure companies into punishing individuals for speech they don't like. I find that more repugnant than the worst speech spewed by anyone who has been cancelled.
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I'm all for cancelling anti-democratic fascist politicians, especially the ones who voted to disenfranchise the voters of Arizona and Pennsylvania. Cancel culture and mobs can be put to constructive use once in a great while. I have a generally negative view of Harvard, but was pleased to see them give Elise Stefanik the boot from one of their advisory committees. Ditto for Grinnell taking back it's honorary degree from Tom Cole.
 
nsacpi said:
I'm all for cancelling anti-democratic fascist politicians, especially the ones who voted to disenfranchise the voters of Arizona and Pennsylvania. Cancel culture and mobs can be put to constructive use once in a great while. I have a generally negative view of Harvard, but was pleased to see them give Elise Stefanik the boot from one of their advisory committees. Ditto for Grinnell taking back it's honorary degree from Tom Cole.
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4 years of illegitimate president and Russian hacking didnt make you feel the same way about anti democratic blah blah blah
 
sturg33 said:
4 years of illegitimate president and Russian hacking didnt make you feel the same way about anti democratic blah blah blah
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That’s the trick. Fascism is defined by opinions they disagree with. The best is that almost all history is captured and documented now because of the internet.

Accuse a good man of gang rape in front of his two young daughters? No issues here.

Being concerned about a statistically driven analysis and resistance to audit? Anti democratic nazis that deserve to be stripped of all rights.

Idiot masquerading as an intellectual behind excellent writing skills.
 
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As we spoke about the horrors of Communism earlier today... its good to point out that a lot of people in this country and in our institutions and on this board embrace the communist tactics and ideas

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sturg33 said:
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But here is the total "poor me" bullsh*t that gets ladled out by the supposedly oppressed. I don't decry people who voted for Trump. They liked Trump. I don't begrudge people who don't want to wear masks, although they should, but I can still listen to and appreciate their complaints. I think the people complaining about the election are wrong, but they can complain all they want.

The difference is, I can abide any and all as long as they stay on the rails. But what we have now is a bunch of people all over social media just spewing out crap (on both the left and right) for no apparent reason other than to wind people up. And you're right to an extent, the provocateurs on the Left are as bad as those on the Right. I'm no wimp. I've gone bare knuckles in the political and policy realms for a long time. But if you are going that route, you better be extremely witty (like P.J. O'Rourke) or willing to face the music. I value free speech, but not all free speech is of equal value. I think that what gets lost these days.

As for Seth Dillon, if there's a more snide pr*ck on the planet than him, that guy would take his place as the biggest a**hole around. Smamy, self-important jacka**.
 
50PoundHead said:
But here is the total "poor me" bullsh*t that gets ladled out by the supposedly oppressed. I don't decry people who voted for Trump. They liked Trump. I don't begrudge people who don't want to wear masks, although they should, but I can still listen to and appreciate their complaints. I think the people complaining about the election are wrong, but they can complain all they want.

The difference is, I can abide any and all as long as they stay on the rails. But what we have now is a bunch of people all over social media just spewing out crap (on both the left and right) for no apparent reason other than to wind people up. And you're right to an extent, the provocateurs on the Left are as bad as those on the Right. I'm no wimp. I've gone bare knuckles in the political and policy realms for a long time. But if you are going that route, you better be extremely witty (like P.J. O'Rourke) or willing to face the music. I value free speech, but not all free speech is of equal value. I think that what gets lost these days.

As for Seth Dillon, if there's a more snide pr*ck on the planet than him, that guy would take his place as the biggest a**hole around. Smamy, self-important jacka**.
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Yeah, the idea of the woah is me is stupid. There's a difference between saying something abhorrent and censoring yourself. Being conservative doesn't get you blacklisted like all these people want you to believe.

Gina Carano wasn't fired for being conservative. She was fired for being a consistent pest and bringing heat.

I rememeber seeing all kinds of people boycotting companies with Liberal Policies. Google "Boycott Ben and Jerrys" They've pissed off so many conservative groups. Remember when Faux News was telling LeBron to not talk about politics and dribble the ball? I don't recall them telling Gina to not talk about politics and just act.
 
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