TLHLIM

Jaw said:
"Now let's take up the minorities in our civilization, shall we? Bigger the population, the more minorities...The bigger your market, Montag, the less you handle controversy, remember that! All the minor minor minorities with their navels to be kept clean. Authors, full of evil thoughts, lock up your typewriters. They did. Magazines became a nice blend of vanilla tapioca. Books, so the damned snobbish critics said, were dishwater. No wonder books stopped selling, the critics said. But the public, knowing what it wanted, spinning happily, let the comic books survive. And the three dimensional sex magazines, of course. There you have it, Montag. It didn't come from the Government down. There was no dictum, no declaration, no censorship, to start with, no! Technology, mass exploitation, and minority pressure carried the trick, thank God."

-- Ray Bradbury, "Fahrenheit 451" (1951)

The Left brings us to dystopia in their enlightenment.
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Has there ever been a time in human history where the people who banned books were the good guys?
 
mqt said:
This pretty directly sums up my concern. You said yourself that we constructed gender roles around stereotypical biological behaviors. However, what ‘gender’ means day-to-day has changed over the years as society has in general. Yet, the discussion started out as being about science and cold hard facts. What I’m suggesting is that societal norms got us to a point where women wear dresses and men wear “men’s” jeans, and they can move us away from it as well, even if you disagree with the biology of someone being transgender.

I respectfully disagree with you on whether or not it’s acceptable for someone to do certain things based on whether they were born with a penis or a vagina. I just continue to question how “the science” says I’m wrong, when it’s a matter of opinion whether or not someone should be allowed to do those things.
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You're being far too reasonable about this for me to keep arguing with you.

In general I don't care about transgender because I don't believe gender is real. It's like picking the name of a kid's imaginary friend. I do care about transsexualism, genitalia surgery, hormone replacement, and parents who encourage their Tommy to be a Tammy.

I have a niece who just declared herself to be a boy. She's not. She can say it all she wants, her family can be as supportive as possible, she can put forward an Oscar worthy performance. In the end, she'll be a woman pretending to be a man until she either faces reality or leaves this world.

I have a daughter who is a tomboy. She's been told she can do anything she puts her mind to, and she enjoys things like hiking, camping, shooting, and sports, and doesn't like makeup or dresses. She understands that all of those things can be true and that she's a girl.

It's clear to me which child is healthier.
 
My wife tells me when she was a young teenager she was also a not a steric typical girl in that she enjoyed sports and outdoor activities. Now she’s a professional makeup artist and loves that industry.

All we have been saying is stop pushing this psychological torture on children because life and desires change fast but once you go the surgery route or hormone replacement route there is no going back.
 
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Jaw said:
You're being far too reasonable about this for me to keep arguing with you.

In general I don't care about transgender because I don't believe gender is real. It's like picking the name of a kid's imaginary friend. I do care about transsexualism, genitalia surgery, hormone replacement, and parents who encourage their Tommy to be a Tammy.

I have a niece who just declared herself to be a boy. She's not. She can say it all she wants, her family can be as supportive as possible, she can put forward an Oscar worthy performance. In the end, she'll be a woman pretending to be a man until she either faces reality or leaves this world.

I have a daughter who is a tomboy. She's been told she can do anything she puts her mind to, and she enjoys things like hiking, camping, shooting, and sports, and doesn't like makeup or dresses. She understands that all of those things can be true and that she's a girl.

It's clear to me which child is healthier.
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I don't think parents encourage Tommy to be Tammy or vice versa. As I've mentioned before there is a family I know very well in this situation. They have a child who is a biological girl. But since she was three or maybe even earlier she has preferred playing with boys, dressing in boys clothing, having her hair cut short. More recently she has requested that people refer to her with male pronouns. Her parents have not encouraged any of this. They have been supportive but their attitude has been one of reluctant acceptance. Their child is now 17 and has told them she wants to transition to being a man. This too is something they have accepted with reluctance. I would be surprised if there were any parents out there who actively pushed their child in this direction. People who are trans are not trans because of parental choice or bad parenting.
 
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nsacpi said:
I don't think parents encourage Tommy to be Tammy or vice versa. As I've mentioned before there is a family I know very well in this situation. They have a child who is a biological girl. But since she was three or maybe even earlier she has preferred playing with boys, dressing in boys clothing, having her hair cut short. More recently she has requested that people refer to her with male pronouns. Her parents have not encouraged any of this. They have been supportive but their attitude has been one of reluctant acceptance. Their child is now 17 and has told them she wants to transition to being a man. This too is something they have accepted with reluctance. I would be surprised if there were any parents out there who actively pushed their child in this direction. People who are trans are not trans because of parental choice or bad parenting.
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I wonder how much of this young ladies environment outside the home shaped her mind since we have an endless onslaught from the media and Hollywood saying it’s perfectly normal.
 
thethe said:
I wonder how much of this young ladies environment outside the home shaped her mind since we have an endless onslaught from the media and Hollywood saying it’s perfectly normal.
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I've known her since she was three. I remember a conversation with her pre-school teacher (who was not some woke dude) who made the comment she was "androgynous." I don't think she was absorbing any media onslaught at age three. And her parents were certainly not the type of people who would think this was something to be welcomed. They have an older daughter who conforms to stereotypical American standards of femininity.
 
nsacpi said:
I've known her since she was three. I remember a conversation with her pre-school teacher (who was not some woke dude) who made the comment she was "androgynous." I don't think she was absorbing any media onslaught at age three. And her parents were certainly not the type of people who would think this was something to be welcomed. They have an older daughter who conforms to stereotypical American standards of femininity.
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I believe there are real cases and this certainly sounds like one but the explosion in growth in the last 5-10 years scream other outside factors.

I hope this person lives a full and happy life.

My manager from an old job transitioned at 34 which I think is much healthier. I just don’t think anyone should be doing it younger than 21 personally.
 
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In the case of the individual and family that I know very well, I am pretty sure there is no abuse. That the child in question is trans not because of any pressure or encouragement from parents. I'm also confident that in the overwhelming majority of cases (99.9%), this is not a question of bad or abusive parenting. To the extent there is a 0.1% of cases that this might be the case, I think that is to be deplored. But it should not distract from the fact that this is not an issue in the overwhelming majority of cases.
 
thethe said:
I hope this person lives a full and happy life.
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He (sometimes I get the pronouns right) is making his choice to live as a man in the face of substantial societal pressures, including some pretty severe bullying in school. It wouldn't be such a bad thing to show some kindness to people making this choice. Maybe even respect their choice of pronouns.
 
nsacpi said:
He (sometimes I get the pronouns right) is making his choice to live as a man in the face of substantial societal pressures, including some pretty severe bullying in school. It wouldn't be such a bad thing to show some kindness to people making this choice. Maybe even respect their choice of pronouns.
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If the use of pronouns is a make or break for an individual then they are in for a rude awakening when they enter the real world.

We have attached way too much meaning to words.
 
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sturg33 said:
I think this person should get psychological treatment before this person gets hurt
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This too. Someone to talk to that has not been a part of their lives so that a fresh perspective can be added.

It’s just way too young to make any permanent decisions.

It took me all the way till 27 to even decide what I wanted to do with my life.
 
sturg33 said:
Lol

[Tw]1367121725952057350[/tw]
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These principled people are absolute idiots. The democrats have cornered the market on low information voters who are fully susceptible to anything the box tells them.

Just pathetic these people are deciding how we live our lives.
 
sturg33 said:
Lol

[Tw]1367121725952057350[/tw]
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Wow, what a misleading tweet.

This company has been designing for CPAC for years, they're a giant company who've planned events for MLB, and countless others.

Sure the Nazi thing is massively overblown, but to insinuate that this corp works for Biden and MSNBC is the fakiest fake news. It would be like saying a wedding venue works for the Bride and Groom.
 
sturg33 said:
There are tons of examples of this. I don't like posting it bc I think it is child abuse

[tw]1187135875441811457[/tw]
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This is clearly wrong, but it’s not necessarily fair to take an example like this and apply it to the rest of the population. Some parents are just bad, and this appears on the surface to be a case of that. I would wonder what your thought would be if the situation was reversed, though. If the little child preferred wearing dresses and doing ‘girly’ things and the parents refused, would that be better?
 
nsacpi said:
He (sometimes I get the pronouns right) is making his choice to live as a man in the face of substantial societal pressures, including some pretty severe bullying in school. It wouldn't be such a bad thing to show some kindness to people making this choice. Maybe even respect their choice of pronouns.
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As thethe said, there are certainly legitimate (for lack of a better word) cases. It isn't a new thing. There are also cases of people being born with both sets of hardware. Both issues have also always been exceedingly rare.

If you don't think the celebration of transing is at least largely to blame for it's recent explosion then I'm speechless. As sturg pointed out, there are plenty of documented cases of parents forcing it on their kids. There are also plenty of stories of people re-transitioning (un-transitioning?) back and then admitting they originally went through it because they were an outcast/bullied/wanted attention/whatever. None of those situations are new, but we've suddenly provided this gender dystopia diagnosis as a cure all and catch all for all of those unextraordinary childhood and adolescent feelings. It's all too reminiscent of the ADD diagnoses of the 90s, with much graver consequences.
 
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