Around the League - 2021 Szn

clvclv said:
This.

Unless you have Native-American heritage, what *ucking business do you have throwing your two cents in?

I don't, and if it's a non-issue for the majority of those who do, there's absolutely no reason for me to join in the discussion - there are plenty of other things that actually deserve my attention.

Stay the *uck off of Facebook and Twitter and you'll enjoy life a *elluva lot more..
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Well, I do, and all you have to do is look around a little to see that it isn't a non-issue for the majority of those who do. Just because some people aren't listening doesn't mean others aren't talking.

Also, people can deal with more than one problem simultaneously. The whole argument that there's "enough **** out there that's actually happening to tear down our republic to spend this much time worrying about a chant" feeds into this bull**** where people act like we can't address multiple problems at once, or that if we're actively addressing one problem it must mean we're ignoring all the others. Frankly, it's a stupid cheap way not to have a conversation you're uncomfortable with, and it has been used for decades to keep social progress at bay. The chant is not our team. The name isn't even our team. It won't hurt anyone if it changes, but it is hurting people by not changing. Why keep it?

Anyway...I love this team! Started as a fan before I had TV listening on the radio. Happy as **** that we are world champions, and I can hold all these positions simultaneously.
 
I’ve said it before, get rid of the chop if you must. It’s definitely racist, but I have some doubts about the severity of its harmfulness. There is zero reason to change the name. Maybe you can change some of the imagery, but that’s it.

The name ‘Braves’ should stay.
 
CyYoung31 said:
I’ve said it before, get rid of the chop if you must. It’s definitely racist, but I have some doubts about the severity of its harmfulness. There is zero reason to change the name. Maybe you can change some of the imagery, but that’s it.

The name ‘Braves’ should stay.
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The term "Braves" (which did not come from Native Americans) is derived from indios bravos (wild, untamed, savage) and has been linked with the Latin barbarus (barbarous). This is not a compliment, but rather just another way that early settlers dehumanized the Native Americans. It's not hard to see why many Natives aren't all that fond of the name.
 
Dalyn said:
The term "Braves" (which did not come from Native Americans) is derived from indios bravos (wild, untamed, savage) and has been linked with the Latin barbarus (barbarous). This is not a compliment, but rather just another way that early settlers dehumanized the Native Americans. It's not hard to see why many Natives aren't all that fond of the name.
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And nobody knows about that, so it isn’t the connotation now.
 
That said, I think the combo of the chop, the tomahawk, Chief Nocahoma, and the name has just been way too much. Those other elements makes it clear in what way the term Braves is meant to be used in this context.
 
Dalyn said:
That said, I think the combo of the chop, the tomahawk, Chief Nocahoma, and the name has just been way too much. Those other elements makes it clear in what way the term Braves is meant to be used in this context.
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Right. But you can get rid of all of that and the Braves name can take on a different meaning.
 
CyYoung31 said:
And nobody knows about that, so it isn’t the connotation now.
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I mean, that's not true, but it's not like we're going to fix this problem by talking about it on a forum. The savage and wild stereotype has kept people from jobs, from fair trials, from bettering their lives, from being able to fully cooperate in the "pursuit of happiness" that is at the root of this country. In order for that to stop for future generations, we have to remove the elements that feed this stereotype.
 
CyYoung31 said:
Right. But you can get rid of all of that and the Braves name can take on a different meaning.
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I personally think the Braves should donate 10% of the team to the local tribes, embrace the element of being the first "Native-owned" team in MLB, do away with the chop and tomahawk, and see if it is possible to have the name take on a different meaning. But that won't happen.
 
My favorite piece of Atlanta merchandise even after getting my World Champions hat yesterday -

tn3flbuhy6tpkwkfzi0u.jpg
 
Dalyn said:
I mean, that's not true, but it's not like we're going to fix this problem by talking about it on a forum. The savage and wild stereotype has kept people from jobs, from fair trials, from bettering their lives, from being able to fully cooperate in the "pursuit of happiness" that is at the root of this country. In order for that to stop for future generations, we have to remove the elements that feed this stereotype.
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Okay. That has nothing to do with the name ‘Braves’.
 
Can we change the Cowboys name. Just because I live in Texas people think I wear cowboy hats and have guns on me at all times. And all my failures in life are directly because of this sterotype thrust upon me.
 
bravesfanforlife88 said:
What about Yankees....that was a derogatory name for northerners back in the day
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yankee is a term that predates the founding and was used with pride by yankees themselves, see "yankee doodle," and is currently used by a town of actual yankees.

There are obviously nuanced conversations to be had here (e.g., the name "Braves" is more salvageable than the tomahawk which is more salvageable than the chop and how much does any of this matter, etc.) but for the life of me I don't understand why people come up with such terrible counter examples like "yankee" or "cowboy." If the difference there isn't obvious to you, you must just be deliberately not paying attention.

Truist is literally located on land stolen during the Trail of Tears. Obviously different than "hur dur a place with a lot Scandinavian heritage calls their team the vikings."
 
Dalyn said:
Except it does. *shrug*
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Ask any common Braves fan the origin of the name. They will tell you that it came from settlers’ admiration for Native American’s bravery. Right, wrong, indifferent, that’s the connotation with ‘Braves’ now. There is no savage imagery attached to the name itself.
 
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