Official 2022 Offseason Moves Thread

Really way outside of the box thought, but since there isn't really much else going on and the numerically-inclined crowd probably has time to look into it...

Wonder what the chances are that Moustakas returns to somewhat similar production to his 2017-2019 stretch? He would provide a LH power bat that should be able to give you solid (if not better) defense at 1B for the next couple years, and you wouldn't be responsible for paying him past his age 35 season.

If the Reds are as desperate to cut salary as it appears and they'd be willing to include a couple prospects to make it happen like Brewers did in the JBJ-Renfroe deal (as MLBTR surmises) AA might be able to land a couple extra prospects to use in potential deals. Probably not fair to expect that he'd be a better option than Rizzo, but you'd only have to pay him for two years and you might get a useable prospect rather than paying Rizzo for 3 years (if that's indeed what he ultimately gets). Either of those two guys would be likely Plan B or Plan C in the event Alex doesn't want to give up a haul for Olson.

Pushing that thought a little further, if they're serious about Rizzo as an option, I guess you could juggle things even more - you could add the two LH bats in Rizzo and Moose on the IF corners and move Riley back to LF. This would make Ozuna a full-time DH right away since you could play Duvall in RF and probably get away with Pache and Heredia hitting 9th and playing CF until Acuna's ready - at that point you slide Duvall back to CF.

I guess the question I have is - would Rizzo and Moose at 3B with Riley in LF be any better than leaving Riley alone and signing Rizzo and Rosario or Pederson if Alex doesn't want to pay the asking price for Olson? Even if he does, you'll still need a LFer.
 
MadduxFanII said:
Andrus never really become a great hitter, but he has racked up 30 WAR in his career -- that's pretty darn good, and it's a lot to trade away for a year and a half of Teixeira and however much Ron Mahay we got. Feliz burned out pretty quickly, but he did pick up eight WAR for the Rangers before losing about a win with sub-replacement pitching over the last few years. Again, still a useful piece. And that's without taking into account the fringe-y contributions of Saltalamacchia and Harrison.
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I don't know why folks act like having given up a good player wins the case. So what?

The idea of trades is that you give at least the chance of something up.

Nothing wrong with giving things up.

This trade was blown up into a big deal because the rest of the Rangers team was pretty good and Atlanta was ill equipped to make a real run.

If they'd traded the guys to a team that never made the playoffs, it wouldn't have been a story and peope wouldn't have gotten bent out of shape about it.

If the Braves big regret in life is Elvis Andrus, maybe folks need to be thankful.
 
I figured we’ve grown past the point of grading moves with the benefit of hindsight.

Unless someone has some actual data about the value of those prospects at the time they were dealt, I don’t put much stock into grading historical moves.
 
McCann'sCans said:
Everyone seems totally comfortable moving Riley to 1B or LF, but I view that as a last resort option. Maximize his value at 3B and let him continue to settle in to the position.
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I do as well - just trying to look for other options we haven't discussed.

Ideally, both the 1B and LF will be LH hitters. It's not a "must" that both be left-handed, but the more options you have for balancing the lineup is a plus when you have someone like Snitker making out the lineup card. The three (four if you count Moustakas) 1B options give you one of the two, so that leaves LF to provide the other UNLESS you sign Seager or trade for Moustakas and move Riley. Even if we assume Alex has a substantial amount of financial flexibility, signing Freeman for 6 years and $30 million AAV severely limits what he can do when Dansby is a free-agent next winter and/or if he would like to consider extensions for anyone else. We "know" what Rosario and Pederson can/will provide, and we've already caught lightning in a bottle with them once - how likely is it that that happens again? Rizzo and Moustakas are both guys with a lot of DEEP postseason experience who would certainly benefit from a change of scenery, so they're the types of guys that would fit perfectly on a contender - and both are extremely well-established as plus-plus clubhouse guys. What I'm less sure of is whether the short-term uptick you hope to get from guys like that will wear off if they're with their new team at the beginning of the year and disappear before you need it down the stretch.

Again, mainly just trying to find angles we haven't considered that don't result in hamstringing the future financial flexibility or cost you the depth that giving up a haul for Olson will - we KNOW Alex is doing that same thing right now.
 
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Enscheff said:
Unless someone has some actual data about the value of those prospects at the time they were dealt, I don’t put much stock into grading historical moves.
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Baseball America had them ranked as follows going into 2007:
Salty was 36th
Andrus was 65th
Harrison was 90th

At the beginning of 2008 BA had Andrus 19th and Feliz 93rd.

So they were very well thought of prospects at the time.

The major problem with the Tex trade was that we needed pitching more on that team, not hitting, and JS just made move to make a move anyway when he couldn't get pitching.

The fact it was a huge overpay was just a secondary issue IMO.
 
auyushu said:
Baseball America had them ranked as follows going into 2007:
Salty was 36th
Andrus was 65th
Harrison was 90th

At the beginning of 2008 BA had Andrus 19th and Feliz 93rd.

So they were very well thought of prospects at the time.

The major problem with the Tex trade was that we needed pitching more on that team, not hitting, and JS just made move to make a move anyway when he couldn't get pitching.

The fact it was a huge overpay was just a secondary issue IMO.
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That's roughly a 50 (Salty), a 50/55 (Andrus, depending on when you want to take the snapshot), a 50 (Harrison), and another 45/50 (Feliz, depending on when you take the snapshot).

Considering the fact all prospect publications have docked pitching prospects by close to a full grade in the last 5ish years due to a better understanding of pitcher volatility, the modern day FVs for those prospects would likely be:

Salty: 50
Andrus: 50/55
Harrison: 40/45
Feliz: 40/45

Coincidentally, that's almost exactly the price we heard 2 years of Olson will cost. So no, I don't think it was some dramatic overpay in terms of prospect capital compared to modern day prospect valuations.

I can't disagree that they needed pitching, and I am 100% on board with getting Kotchman as the centerpiece a year later was horrible.
 
Enscheff said:
Coincidentally, that's almost exactly the price we heard 2 years of Olson will cost. So no, I don't think it was some dramatic overpay in terms of prospect capital compared to modern day prospect valuations.

I can't disagree that they needed pitching, and I am 100% on board with getting Kotchman as the centerpiece a year later was horrible.
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Eh, you are applying the benefit of hindsight here to devalue them as prospects though, they were worth a bunch more in 2007 prospect capital. On top of that Beau Jones was included in that trade as well, and was a higher ranked prospect than Feliz at the time. Feliz was treated as basically a throw in fifth prospect at the time, which pissed off a bunch of people.

I'd agree that getting basically nothing for Tex at the 2008 deadline is what turned it from a poor trade to a very bad trade though.
 
The Tex trade was a bigger deal for us posting on the Scout form before this was created. The guy running the Braves site had connections in the Braves and was a good source for Braves stuff. It was good enough for people to stick around despite him being an ass to people who disagreed with him. According to him at the time Andruscwas thought highly enough by the scouts that they would quit if he was traded.
 
cajunrevenge said:
The Tex trade was a bigger deal for us posting on the Scout form before this was created. The guy running the Braves site had connections in the Braves and was a good source for Braves stuff. It was good enough for people to stick around despite him being an ass to people who disagreed with him. According to him at the time Andruscwas thought highly enough by the scouts that they would quit if he was traded.
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Takes me back to my childhood
 
cajunrevenge said:
The Tex trade was a bigger deal for us posting on the Scout form before this was created. The guy running the Braves site had connections in the Braves and was a good source for Braves stuff. It was good enough for people to stick around despite him being an ass to people who disagreed with him. According to him at the time Andruscwas thought highly enough by the scouts that they would quit if he was traded.
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Really? Who quit after he was traded?

That guy was a complete clown who thought he was a bigger deal than he was.
 
That guy was a total ****tard... Remember him saying that the reason nobody was posting on the board anymore was because everyone was following the games on Twitter and then checking back on the scout board to read his insights ... what a total POS
 
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