Official 2022 Offseason Moves Thread

GovClintonTyree said:
You know, between 2008-2011 Frank Wren put together an unbelievable rotation, and I'm not kidding. Tommy Hanson, Jair Jurrjens, Kris Medlen and Brandon Beachy all looked like gold when they were first dropped into the rotation. A shoulder, depression and a nasty cocaine addiction, a knee that never got better, and four Tommy Johns and we're scrambling to cobble together a rotation with Lowe, Kawakami, Vasquez, etc.

It's great to be good, but you gotta be a little lucky, too. With that pitching Wren rolled snake eyes. That, coupled with his overwhelming urge to overpay ****ty players in free agency and his winning personality, and - boom! - hello Coppalella.
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You got your timeline all ****ed up there, boss.
 
chop2chip said:
Beachy especially. He seems like the type of guy that would have been unlocked with modern pitching analytics.

I constantly forget Tommy Hanson played for the Braves. I bought his stock super high.
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Went and sat in the front row 3b side for one of his games. He threw strikes and made folks look silly. Really wish he had survived ARMageddon back then.
 
Tapate50 said:
You won't ever convince me we weren't doing something in the training room or with arm prep that ruined some careers. That rash of injuries was unreal.
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Hanson and Medlen had really bad mechanics. Hanson was basically throwing all arm and Medlen was an all or nothing thrower. He excerpted every pound of tension in his body. Jurrjens I can't remember his knee issue, was it contact that never healed? Beachy I don't remember if he was a **** mechanics guy or not.
 
zitothebrave said:
Early Tommy Hanson was so nice to watch. Once his shoulder started going he was done though. But what wrecked his shoulder was probably what made him nasty.
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I could not stand watching him pitch. He took FOREVER. It was so boring between pitches, and that hesitation he had just really highlighted the issue and made it feel even longer.
 
Southcack77 said:
The rationale trade was pretty clear. Try to hit enough to win the pitching games that were winnable. Kind of a long shot but look what just won the World Series.
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Not a terrible plan considering the crew manning 1B, led by the great Scott Throman, prior to Tex had accumulated almost -1 WAR in 4 months. Tex then came in and posted 2.2 WAR in 2 months, so the upgrade was massive.

Folks are also attempting to downplay Andrus as if he didn’t end up being a good player. The guy posted like 16 WAR in his first 6 years of team control. That’s a tremendous outcome for a non-elite prospect.

The Tex trade certainly wasn’t good, but by itself it wasn’t this inexcusable disaster it’s being portrayed. JS overpaid for a massive upgrade at 1B when the team also needed pitching, and he failed to add that needed pitching. He then flipped Tex for a horrible package a year later that compounded the issue. So a bad trade plus not filling another major need plus the bad return for Tex did result in a poor overall outcome.
 
Enscheff said:
Not a terrible plan considering the crew manning 1B, led by the great Scott Throman, prior to Tex had accumulated almost -1 WAR in 4 months. Tex then came in and posted 2.2 WAR in 2 months, so the upgrade was massive.

Folks are also attempting to downplay Andrus as if he didn’t end up being a good player. The guy posted like 16 WAR in his first 6 years of team control. That’s a tremendous outcome for a non-elite prospect.

The Tex trade certainly wasn’t good, but by itself it wasn’t this inexcusable disaster it’s being portrayed. JS overpaid for a massive upgrade at 1B when the team also needed pitching, and he failed to add that needed pitching. He then flipped Tex for a horrible package a year later that compounded the issue. So a bad trade plus not filling another major need plus the bad return for Tex did result in a poor overall outcome.
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As has been said many times (including by you), the insistence on a MLB-ready first baseman from the Angels was the dumbest possible move in the whole Teixeira sequence. It seems simple to figure out in hindsight...and did at the time...that the Angels wouldn't be dealing for a 1B if the one they had was playable.

They did the same to a lesser degree in the Simmons trade ten years later, although you could make the argument that the Braves needed someone to stand at SS to keep them from bringing Swanson up too soon in a lost season.
 
Enscheff said:
Not a terrible plan considering the crew manning 1B, led by the great Scott Throman, prior to Tex had accumulated almost -1 WAR in 4 months. Tex then came in and posted 2.2 WAR in 2 months, so the upgrade was massive.

Folks are also attempting to downplay Andrus as if he didn’t end up being a good player. The guy posted like 16 WAR in his first 6 years of team control. That’s a tremendous outcome for a non-elite prospect.

The Tex trade certainly wasn’t good, but by itself it wasn’t this inexcusable disaster it’s being portrayed. JS overpaid for a massive upgrade at 1B when the team also needed pitching, and he failed to add that needed pitching. He then flipped Tex for a horrible package a year later that compounded the issue. So a bad trade plus not filling another major need plus the bad return for Tex did result in a poor overall outcome.
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Wren traded him to LAA.

JS acquired Tex because everyone knew it was his last hurrah as GM and would be stepping down at season's end. They were going for it while Smoltz was still effective as a starter and Huddy was there too.
 
DirkPiggler said:
As has been said many times (including by you), the insistence on a MLB-ready first baseman from the Angels was the dumbest possible move in the whole Teixeira sequence. It seems simple to figure out in hindsight...and did at the time...that the Angels wouldn't be dealing for a 1B if the one they had was playable.

They did the same to a lesser degree in the Simmons trade ten years later, although you could make the argument that the Braves needed someone to stand at SS to keep them from bringing Swanson up too soon in a lost season.
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I suspect the SS in that more recent deal didn't affect the prospect package.
 
Enscheff said:
The Tex trade certainly wasn’t good, but by itself it wasn’t this inexcusable disaster it’s being portrayed. JS overpaid for a massive upgrade at 1B when the team also needed pitching, and he failed to add that needed pitching. He then flipped Tex for a horrible package a year later that compounded the issue. So a bad trade plus not filling another major need plus the bad return for Tex did result in a poor overall outcome.
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What was interesting to me was the hubris at the time. I remember being pimped on guys like Jo Jo Reyes, James Parr and Charlie Morton.This idea that BRaves prospects were the best and

Now we all know Charlie wound up being a great pitcher, but that was almost a decade later. And it certainly wasn't gonna be in Atlanta.

For a fun little bit of alternative history, look at Baseball America's 2011 Atlanta lineup

PROJECTED 2011 LINEUP
Catcher Brian McCann
First Base Mark Teixeira
Second Base Kelly Johnson
Third Base Jon Gilmore
Shortstop Yunel Escobar
Left Field Jason Heyward
Center Field Jordan Schafer
Right Field Jeff Francouer
No. 1 Starter Tim Hudson
No. 2 Starter Jair Jurrjens
No. 3 Starter Cole Rohrbough
No. 4 Starter Jeff Locke
No. 5 Starter Jo-Jo Reyes
Closer Rafael Soriano
 
Enscheff said:
Not a terrible plan considering the crew manning 1B, led by the great Scott Throman, prior to Tex had accumulated almost -1 WAR in 4 months. Tex then came in and posted 2.2 WAR in 2 months, so the upgrade was massive.

Folks are also attempting to downplay Andrus as if he didn’t end up being a good player. The guy posted like 16 WAR in his first 6 years of team control. That’s a tremendous outcome for a non-elite prospect.

The Tex trade certainly wasn’t good, but by itself it wasn’t this inexcusable disaster it’s being portrayed. JS overpaid for a massive upgrade at 1B when the team also needed pitching, and he failed to add that needed pitching. He then flipped Tex for a horrible package a year later that compounded the issue. So a bad trade plus not filling another major need plus the bad return for Tex did result in a poor overall outcome.
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Andrus was the thing they gave up and he was pretty good. In a mostly glove defensive shortstop kind of way. I doubt anyone will be telling their kids about him.

Meanwhile Yunel ended up with 24 wins of his own and was 2-4 win player in his own right, which I just say to point out they traded surplus that probably turned out a little better than they'd have liked.
 
The Chosen One said:
Wren traded him to LAA.

JS acquired Tex because everyone knew it was his last hurrah as GM and would be stepping down at season's end. They were going for it while Smoltz was still effective as a starter and Huddy was there too.
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Yes, but the heavy reporting at the time was Cox/JS were the reason that we got Kotchman. Like we wouldn't look at trading him unless we could get a 1B back. Which wound up being dumb because Freeman wound up being a boss. Could you imagine if we pulled off (not saying we could) an even Tex for Scherzer swap?
 
ixiXSolidXixi said:
Rosario had today a parade at his hometown Guayama PR and he told the reporter he almost sign before the lockout and the reporter ask him with who but he don’t say name. He say he will like to stay with the Braves but he is looking for a good contract.

https://www.primerahora.com/deporte...cibe-con-una-caravana-a-eddie-rosario-275451/
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The concern with this is that it makes it fair to continue to speculate about exactly what's going on.

If he wants to return - and expressed that much to Alex - and the sides were close, it's entirely fair to wonder if "the plan" includes Rosario at all. Ideally, the LF bat is left-handed (and will take a short-term deal) - Eddie obviously checks that box. If they were "only" a million or so dollars (or an incentives-based option for a second year) apart, what exactly was the holdup? If they're NOT going to give Freddie what he wants, there should be plenty of money available since Olson or Rizzo would be much less expensive and payroll's supposedly going up.

The list of available LH-hitting OFs includes Rosario, Pederson, Schwarber, and Conforto unless you're looking at guys like the Dickerson brothers (Alex and Corey) or Odubel Herrera. Really hard to think they have a lot of interest in Schwarber because of the defensive concerns.

Honestly makes me wonder what they think of Conforto and whether they think they can get him on a 2-3 year deal.
 
clvclv said:
The concern with this is that it makes it fair to continue to speculate about exactly what's going on.

If he wants to return - and expressed that much to Alex - and the sides were close, it's entirely fair to wonder if "the plan" includes Rosario at all. Ideally, the LF bat is left-handed (and will take a short-term deal) - Eddie obviously checks that box. If they were "only" a million or so dollars (or an incentives-based option for a second year) apart, what exactly was the holdup? If they're NOT going to give Freddie what he wants, there should be plenty of money available since Olson or Rizzo would be much less expensive and payroll's supposedly going up.

The list of available LH-hitting OFs includes Rosario, Pederson, Schwarber, and Conforto unless you're looking at guys like the Dickerson brothers (Alex and Corey) or Odubel Herrera. Really hard to think they have a lot of interest in Schwarber because of the defensive concerns.

Honestly makes me wonder what they think of Conforto and whether they think they can get him on a 2-3 year deal.
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Michael Conforto includes a QO pick and his agent is Scott Boras. He probably want a 3 to 4 years contract.
 
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