BBB

Jaw said:
Your point about the shape of WV is good. It's the whole "add trillions to the debt to spend a few billion on worthwhile things and the rest on progressive social policy" that creates the hold up.

By all means, find a targeted bill to address Appalachian health, education, and job opportunities, and I'll pester my Senators and Congressman to no end about supporting it.

Why do you reckon they never seem to do that? What do you think is the reason admirable policies like these are never broken out into individual bills? Why is it wrapped into a larger bill that is 2400 pages and 444,000 words long?
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The amendment process has been destroyed as well.

Basically Mitch, Chuck, and Nancy decide what their parties will vote for and that is it. No longer is there a representative government.
 
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Let's look at some low hanging fruit that we could cut out to make it more likely that the good people of West Virginia get the help they need.

80 billion dollars to hire 87,000 new IRS workers. Tell me, do you think that when the funding expires in two years the plan is to reduce the IRS by 87,000 workers? Or do you think the goal is to add $40,000,000,000 in annual payroll to IRS, "so they can make billionaires pay their fair share?"

Do you think it's necessary to spend $15,000,000 over two years identifying underserved gender issues in the elderly?

There’s also $4 billion for “neighborhood access and equity grants,” and $1 billion for a “electric vehicle charging equity program.” Are they going to put electric vehicle charging stations in poor neighborhoods for people who can’t afford those expensive electric cars?

$5,000,000,000 for environmental and “climate justice” block grants for disadvantaged communities?

$12,000,000,000 to buy electric cars for federal workers, mostly the post office. That should work well during rolling blackouts in cities during the summer months.

$5,000,000 to buy voting machines for private industry unions.

$250 per person incentive to be a member of a union.

$1,400,000,000 in additional climate change research.

$7,500,000,000 for the "Civilian Climate Corps"

Actually, how we about we just remove any section that mentions the words climate, gender, equity, race, minority, voting, citizenship, immigration, union, justice, or IRS? I bet we could whittle it down to a much lower price tag for helping our Appalachian brethren by doing that.
 
sturg33 said:
The amendment process has been destroyed as well.

Basically Mitch, Chuck, and Nancy decide what their parties will vote for and that is it. No longer is there a representative government.
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Hopefully this is a step in the right direction, but I’m skeptical. You’ve got the progressive wing saying “see, this is why we needed to vote on the infrastructure bill and the BBB as a package,” which is the exact opposite of what we should be doing.
 
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Jaw said:
Let's look at some low hanging fruit that we could cut out to make it more likely that the good people of West Virginia get the help they need.


80 billion dollars to hire 87,000 new IRS workers. Tell me, do you think that when the funding expires in two years the plan is to reduce the IRS by 87,000 workers? Or do you think the goal is to add $40,000,000,000 in annual payroll to IRS, "so they can make billionaires pay their fair share?"
I dont have an answer for that.
Something I have not looked into. But on its face, 87,000 jobs are hardly a bad thing.
Those would be " auditors" correct ?
We might lose thethe to a real job where he has to work rather than pester other s here all day. Every day

Do you think it's necessary to spend $15,000,000 over two years identifying underserved gender issues in the elderly?
Yes

There’s also $4 billion for “neighborhood access and equity grants,” and $1 billion for a “electric vehicle charging equity program.” Are they going to put electric vehicle charging stations in poor neighborhoods for people who can’t afford those expensive electric cars?
Remember 10 years ago we had cash for clunkers revitalizing the auto industry. Not for the immediate 10 years ago but for 5 to 10 years later

$5,000,000,000 for environmental and “climate justice” block grants for disadvantaged communities?
Yes, I believe those would be jobs to revitalize neighborhoods
Not a psychologist but it stands to reason and research that mental health and environment are one and the same

$12,000,000,000 to buy electric cars for federal workers, mostly the post office. That should work well during rolling blackouts in cities during the summer months.
We as the rest of the planet are moving away from fossil fuel powered transportation. At some point there must be a transition

$5,000,000 to buy voting machines for private industry unions.
Why not ?
Making it easier for people to vote with out disruption to production

$250 per person incentive to be a member of a union.
Union by definition have apprentice programs and worker assistance programs

$1,400,000,000 in additional climate change research.
Witness Kentucky last week, You live in S Georgia--- how are your Dogwoods doing ?

$7,500,000,000 for the "Civilian Climate Corps"
Yes definitly
Why not ?

Actually, how we about we just remove any section that mentions the words climate, gender, equity, race, minority, voting, citizenship, immigration, union, justice, or IRS? I bet we could whittle it down to a much lower price tag for helping our Appalachian brethren by doing that.

we have different definitions of " infrastructure". I see the word pertaining to the overall health of our society. From potholes to Day Care to roads and bridges to a better understanding of equailty on a one to one basis
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Well we know what you and the crew are against,
but, what are you for ?
And how do you plan on getting there
Awfully easy to be against . As we are witnessing, it is hard being for something
Am I right ?
I have seen nothing else put on the table addressing even what you would refer as the riper fruit further up the tree
 
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Tapate50 said:
Manchin basically saved the Dems from themselves IMO
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I dont totally disagree with that.

AOC making the case on Morning Joe this morning I hear.
And expect to see a lfot of progressive speakers and thinkers getting air time.
Let's not dismiss the blotch Jan 6 has put on Fox.
I would think a lot of people would look on them a bit more skeptically than before

Bear in mind it took over a century to get any kind of national health care policy.

Over 100 years to get any kind of national civil rights policy

But, the clock is ticking on many of these issues.
re:
Black lung's attachment to weaning our selves of fossil fuel
 
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Well I'm in the minority here, I'm all for additional tax categories for the very wealthy, I would like to make private union membership more common, I do think health care (NOT mandatory, crappy health insurance plans) should be universal, and I would love to hide the sun from every blade of suburban grass with trees.

And that's the problem. I'm all for all of those left of center policy positions, and I still think this bill is loaded down with way too much progressive bloat and has the worst timing in terms of the economy that I can possibly imagine.
 
I'm for letting people and businesses make their own decisions, keep their own money, and reducing the administrative bureaucratic burden the government imposes on all of us.

I asked in another thread... do you genuinely believe the federal government will do better with Elon Musk's $12B tax bill than Elon Musk could do with it?
 
looking back on civil rights, 1957 LBJ floated ideas he knew wouldn't get through Dixie
by 1964, he gathered enough support to get a bill through.

I dont wonder if this bill politically doesnt speak more to 5-10 years down the road.

But expect to see a lot of progressives and their policies shown in a different light in the next months --- explaining progressive positions, that stand alone poll very well

Joe Biden been around too long to be taken so easily by as clumsy a pol as Manchin
 
sturg33 said:
I'm for letting people and businesses make their own decisions, keep their own money, and reducing the administrative bureaucratic burden the government imposes on all of us.

I asked in another thread... do you genuinely believe the federal government will do better with Elon Musk's $12B tax bill than Elon Musk could do with it?
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That mind set / school of thought has run this country into the ground
unlike all but a few, I remember pre Interstate hiways , functioning unions, a tax rate on business and segregation.

Elon Musk for all his celebrity is a leach
 
57Brave said:
looking back on civil rights, 1957 LBJ floated ideas he knew wouldn't get through Dixie
by 1964, he gathered enough support to get a bill through.

I dont wonder if this bill politically doesnt speak more to 5-10 years down the road.

But expect to see a lot of progressives and their policies shown in a different light in the next months --- explaining progressive positions, that stand alone poll very well

Joe Biden been around too long to be taken so easily by as clumsy a pol as Manchin
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Positions poll well.

How you get those positions implemented poll terribly.

If you say to someone - "Hey how would you like to never have to pay for anything again?". That position will poll well.

Then you tell them - "You still have to work as much as you do but you don't see a penny coming to you. And when that happens the idea of buying 'ANYTHING' will change. It will be what we tell you is important"

How do you think that position will poll?
 
thethe said:
Positions poll well.

How you get those positions implemented poll terribly.

If you say to someone - "Hey how would you like to never have to pay for anything again?". That position will poll well.

Then you tell them - "You still have to work as much as you do but you don't see a penny coming to you. And when that happens the idea of buying 'ANYTHING' will change. It will be what we tell you is important"

How do you think that position will poll?
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Not sure how to debate the merits of a bill with someone who starts from the position that he doesn’t give a **** what it costs.
 
Jaw said:
has the worst timing in terms of the economy that I can possibly imagine.
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but the whole country is talking about black lung, inner city mental healt and of course our crumbling roads a bridges.

No infrastructure bill was going to pass with a 50-50 Senate.
 
Elon is in a prime position to profit from the EV funding in BBB and still opposes it.
 
acesfull86 said:
Not sure how to debate the merits of a bill with someone who starts from the position that he doesn’t give a **** what it costs.
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and I am not sure how to discuss a bill with someone that is opposed based on the party of POTUS.
Wasnt it Mitch McConnel that said his purpose was to insure "Obama was a one term President"
Change my mind that mindset is not a twork today
/////////////////////

My point is These changes are needed.
Let's get to where we can agree on that.
Even trees in inner cities


As far as cost, I didnt see anyone here up on their hind legs over the defense bill a week or so back ?
 
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57Brave said:
That mind set / school of thought has run this country into the ground
unlike all but a few, I remember pre Interstate hiways , functioning unions, a tax rate on business and segregation.

Elon Musk for all his celebrity is a leach
Click to expand...

Interesting... Bc the federal government has never been bigger, and has never spent more money, and has never been in more debt.

And to your own admission, the country has been run in the ground.

Can you connect the dots?
 
acesfull86 said:
Not sure how to debate the merits of a bill with someone who starts from the position that he doesn’t give a **** what it costs.
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You can’t debate anything with simps like 57. He doesn’t understand basic math and economics so he just likes when money is spent.

It’s extremely childish.
 
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