The Discussion That Should Be Going On

57Brave

57Brave

Well-known member
This article this morning. Do you have an opinion???
http://www.salon.com/2013/07/15/our_real_problem_is_white_rage/
??????

Sanford police coyly “tolerated” the actual killing of an unarmed black child, but yet refuse to “tolerate” any anger expressed for the acquittal of his murderer.

It bears reminding that it was Sanford’s police who first allowed Zimmerman to walk away uncharged — his gun in tote. The story of self-defense seemed logical to them given the brown body laying on the ground. It was their decision not to investigate the case as a crime that led to public outcry, rallies and marches. It is only because of their total failure to do their jobs that the world now knows the name and face of Trayvon Martin.

And when the criminal justice system — in the hands, as it was, of two white defense attorneys, two white prosecutors and a mostly-white jury presided over by a white judge — choose to disregard the life of an innocent black teenager, it can hardly be a surprising result. Trayvon Martin was profiled not just by Zimmerman on the night he was killed, but by the very people charged with ajudicating justice on behalf of his senseless death
(this paragraph brings to mind The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carrol - )
 
Yes, the police believed it was self defense, which was proven in the trial. That is one of the worst articles i've ever read. The police should allow people to go crazy because why?
 
In other news, a white person killed a brown person yesterday. But nobody cared because it was in Afghanistan
 
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...d-the-justice-system-against-young-black-men/

The statistics back up Alexander’s point. Minorities, especially the six million young black men in America, get much worse outcomes from the criminal justice system for the same conduct:

1. A black male born in 2001 has a 32% chance of spending some portion of his life in prison. A white male born the same year has just a 6% chance. [Sentencing Project]

2. In major American cities, as many as 80% of young African-American men have criminal records. [Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow]

3. African-Americans who use drugs are more than four times as likely to be incarcerated than whites who use drugs. African Americans constitute 14% of the population and 14% of monthly drug users. But African-Americans respresent 34% of those arrested for a drug offense and 53% of those sentenced to prison for a drug offense. [American Bar Association]

4. In seven states, African Americans constitute 80% or more of all drug offenders sent to prison. [Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow]

5. Black students are three and a half times as likely to be suspended or expelled than their white peers. One in five black boys recieve an out-of-school suspension. Education Secretary Arne Duncan who commissioned the study, said “The undeniable truth is that the everyday education experience for too many students of color violates the principle of equity at the heart of the American promise.” [New York Times]

6. Black youth who are referred to juvenile court are much more likely to be detained, referred to adult court or end up in adult prison than their white counterparts. Blacks represented 28% of juvenile arrests, 30% of referrals to juvenile court, 37% of the detained population, 35% of youth judicially waived to criminal court and 58% of youth admitted to state adult prison. [National Council on Crime And Deliquency]

7. The United States imprisons a larger percentage of its black population than South Africa did at the height of apartheid. [Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow]
 
57Brave said:
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...d-the-justice-system-against-young-black-men/

The statistics back up Alexander’s point. Minorities, especially the six million young black men in America, get much worse outcomes from the criminal justice system for the same conduct:

1. A black male born in 2001 has a 32% chance of spending some portion of his life in prison. A white male born the same year has just a 6% chance. [Sentencing Project]

2. In major American cities, as many as 80% of young African-American men have criminal records. [Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow]

3. African-Americans who use drugs are more than four times as likely to be incarcerated than whites who use drugs. African Americans constitute 14% of the population and 14% of monthly drug users. But African-Americans respresent 34% of those arrested for a drug offense and 53% of those sentenced to prison for a drug offense. [American Bar Association]

4. In seven states, African Americans constitute 80% or more of all drug offenders sent to prison. [Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow]

5. Black students are three and a half times as likely to be suspended or expelled than their white peers. One in five black boys recieve an out-of-school suspension. Education Secretary Arne Duncan who commissioned the study, said “The undeniable truth is that the everyday education experience for too many students of color violates the principle of equity at the heart of the American promise.” [New York Times]

6. Black youth who are referred to juvenile court are much more likely to be detained, referred to adult court or end up in adult prison than their white counterparts. Blacks represented 28% of juvenile arrests, 30% of referrals to juvenile court, 37% of the detained population, 35% of youth judicially waived to criminal court and 58% of youth admitted to state adult prison. [National Council on Crime And Deliquency]

7. The United States imprisons a larger percentage of its black population than South Africa did at the height of apartheid. [Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow]
Click to expand...

1. Worthless comparrison. You are not comparing like-for like. For example, a black male with 2 married parents is actually LESS likely to to spend time in prison than a white male with 2 married parents. The difference is, there are far less black males who fall into that category.

2. Again, this is almost 100% related to education and upbringing

3. This is truth. Which is why black people are so silly to think the government has their best interests at heart. The war on drugs is basically a war on black people.

4. Means nothing to me without context

5. I would want to see the comparrisons of up-bringing. We need to make sure we're comparing apples to apples for it to be an accurate representation. See point 1

6. I have read this point 3 times now and am not understanding it.

7. Not sure what this one means or why it is relevant.

I'm not arguing the justice system doesn't discriminate against blacks. I think the drug incarcerations prove that. But I get annoyed with these dumb statistics that take everything from the top level. It simply does not account for the fact that black kids are less educated and are far more likely to only have one parent growing up. When you compare like-fo-like, the numbers show a completely different story.
 
sturg33 said:
1. Worthless comparrison. You are not comparing like-for like. For example, a black male with 2 married parents is actually LESS likely to to spend time in prison than a white male with 2 married parents. The difference is, there are far less black males who fall into that category.

2. Again, this is almost 100% related to education and upbringing

I'm not arguing the justice system doesn't discriminate against blacks. I think the drug incarcerations prove that. But I get annoyed with these dumb statistics that take everything from the top level. It simply does not account for the fact that black kids are less educated and are far more likely to only have one parent growing up. When you compare like-fo-like, the numbers show a completely different story.
Click to expand...

Sturg nails it. I wish I had his back up on the other Scout board I visit. There is black on black crime going between I and another. He blames whitey for everything and I mean EVERYTHING. Two parents and stay in school can cure our problems but some don't want to hear that. They want things giving to them on spoon, aka the guvment. As I said before, my parents been married almost 50 years and are Democrats, brought up four kids right and they respect our wishes only asking us to stay out of trouble and don't do drugs. This guy says whitey force drugs on us, force us out of school by catering to whites. I told him to go back to Africa if it's that bad here and educate them using rappers and athletes who can't read as models.
 
Obviously neither of you read the article and / or the attachments . I was really hoping for something more substantive than a he said - she said back and forth. With predetermined sides. Of course there are structural family problems in Black America - everyone knows and recognizes that. That is not a profound thought OF course if they just quit taking food stamps. But, how do we get from here to there? History tells up it is hard to pull one up by the boot straps when the puller doesn't even have boots! -- instead of throwing your hands up -- what do you suggest?
This is a complicated problem that has been a bone of contention in our culture since the 1600's and will require complicated thought rather than petty bumper sticker or Fox news based opinions. I trust there are enough educated people and enough people invested in our culture to form intelligent opinions and to discuss . I am willing to stand aside and listen but fer chries sake say something that means something

Here: from the bottom of the article posted above. -
In 2004, the Amerian Bar Association created a commission which produced recommendation to address “racial and ethnic bias in the criminal justice system.” Thus far, their recommendations have been largely ignored in much of the country.
 
57Brave said:
Obviously neither of you read the article and / or the attachments . I was really hoping for something more substantive than a he said - she said back and forth. With predetermined sides. Of course there are structural family problems in Black America - everyone knows and recognizes that. That is not a profound thought OF course if they just quit taking food stamps. But, how do we get from here to there? History tells up it is hard to pull one up by the boot straps when the puller doesn't even have boots! -- instead of throwing your hands up -- what do you suggest?
This is a complicated problem that has been a bone of contention in our culture since the 1600's and will require complicated thought rather than petty bumper sticker or Fox news based opinions. I trust there are enough educated people and enough people invested in our culture to form intelligent opinions and to discuss . I am willing to stand aside and listen but fer chries sake say something that means something

Here: from the bottom of the article posted above. -
In 2004, the Amerian Bar Association created a commission which produced recommendation to address “racial and ethnic bias in the criminal justice system.” Thus far, their recommendations have been largely ignored in much of the country.
Click to expand...

Actually I like this post and you are right. How do we fix the problem? Sturg is correct on few things about war on drugs. My cousin just out of prison for drugs (MJ) and ruined his life because he wanted some bling. We need to steer our culture away from glorification of gangsta types, rappers and athletes who can't read as being models. I would start there. The other I am not going to mention because both sides would crucify me and only one other person agree with my assessment. Having two parents goes a long way but that problem would be the hardest to fix that is for sure.
 
Please take some time and read Justice Kennedy's Report.

This is an institutional problem that is part of our (American - all color) cultural DNA. Like I said since the 1600's
AA you might find page 53 interesting and may have in fact been that person once.
 
I think the first solution to pulling the black race up to higher standards is to eliminate welfare and federal interferance in the education system.

Welfare is simply paying for failure, and until you stop doing so, it will continue to be an issue.

I think Thomas Sowell describes it pretty good in the short clip... Talk about an educated black man.

 
57Brave said:
Please take some time and read Justice Kennedy's Report.

This is an institutional problem that is part of our (American - all color) cultural DNA. Like I said since the 1600's
AA you might find page 53 interesting and may have in fact been that person once.
Click to expand...

Good job Steak Sauce and you are correct. DWB. I posted about this a few times. When I got pulled over, I'm always polite, dress nicely (Carlton Banks if you will) and have no ***elry, tats or a grill because I don't trust the po po. I do not have to worry about it here since they know me pretty well through playing hoops with them and one of them is a neighbor of mine.

Interesting read though, I will give you dad and believe a lot of what is says.
 
“Opinion is really the lowest form of human knowledge. It requires no accountability, no understanding. The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another’s world. It requires profound purpose larger than the self kind of understanding.”
— Bill Bullard
 
57Brave said:
“Opinion is really the lowest form of human knowledge. It requires no accountability, no understanding. The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another’s world. It requires profound purpose larger than the self kind of understanding.”
— Bill Bullard
Click to expand...

Accountability. A noble thought.
 
Black female imprisonment rate has dropped dramatically. So if you can figure out why that is and you can figure out a way to apply it to the male population then you may have your answer.
 
Justifiable Homicide plea:
White Shooter-Black Victim --- 30% success
Black Shooter -White Victim --- 3% success
 
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