Spring Training Gamethread/Discussion

Dalyn said:
I did say that. And THAT is nothing like your post. And I didn't answer because I've answered that question about ten or fifteen times already.
Click to expand...

All I've ever seen you say is that the Braves should have kept Tim Hudson or signed someone other than Gavin Floyd without even mentioning how they were supposed to do that given the budget restraints. You think it would have been smart to match the offer the Giants gave Tim Hudson at his age and given the fact that he was coming off a major ankle injury? Apparently Frank Wren didn't. It took special circumstances, which you acknowledged last night, for the Braves to completely blow their budget so they could afford to sign Ervin Santana. Nobody saw Kris Medlen getting hurt. I'll give you that Brandon Beachy was a major question mark and should not have been counted on to be a part of the rotation. Do you think keeping Paul Maholm would have been a smarter move than signing Gavin Floyd? I don't because Maholm was dealing with his own health issues most of last year and was horrible in road games even if he was great at home. I just don't know what Frank Wren could have done that would have made you happy unless he would have had a crystal ball to know that Kris Medlen and Brandon Beachy wouldn't throw a pitch this season and know that Mike Minor would run into a issue with tenderness in his shoulder.
 
AUTiger7222 said:
All I've ever seen you say is that the Braves should have kept Tim Hudson or signed someone other than Gavin Floyd without even mentioning how they were supposed to do that given the budget restraints. You think it would have been smart to match the offer the Giants gave Tim Hudson at his age and given the fact that he was coming off a major ankle injury? Apparently Frank Wren didn't. It took special circumstances, which you acknowledged last night, for the Braves to completely blow their budget so they could afford to sign Ervin Santana. Nobody saw Kris Medlen getting hurt. I'll give you that Brandon Beachy was a major question mark and should not have been counted on to be a part of the rotation. Do you think keeping Paul Maholm would have been a smarter move than signing Gavin Floyd? I don't because Maholm was dealing with his own health issues most of last year and was horrible in road games even if he was great at home. I just don't know what Frank Wren could have done that would have made you happy unless he would have had a crystal ball to know that Kris Medlen and Brandon Beachy wouldn't throw a pitch this season and know that Mike Minor would run into a issue with tenderness in his shoulder.
Click to expand...

I never said the Braves should've kept Hudson. NEVER. I said they should've adequately replaced him.
 
As soon as Hudson signed elsewhere, Wren should have looked for a more suitable replacement than Gavin Floyd. I give Wren somewhat of a pass because it's obvious that pitching is at a premium and teams were willing to open up the checkbook in a big way. Braves had constraints, but bringing back Garcia and signing a guy who wasn't going to be available until May didn't provide any quality depth in case something did happen (and it did to Beachy--which I expected--and Medlen--which didn't surprise me). It would be different if we were brimming with big league ready arms in the high minors, but we aren't. Graham's status put a big crimp in that.

I'm not saying Wren should have had a rotation of all-stars ready to go. That's not the expectation. But if Dalyn is saying that we should have had a viable back-up plan to accommodate Hudson's departure, I agree with him.
 
Dalyn said:
I never said the Braves should've kept Hudson. NEVER. I said they should've adequately replaced him.
Click to expand...

I wonder if ownership would have allowed anyone of significance to come in if there wasn't a catastrophic reason to do so. I doubt it, but I guess we'll never know. There weren't a ton of options out there, and good pitchers get ridiculous money for even a one year deal.

Would you guys have rather kept Hudson over Santana? Would Hudson have stayed for one year? I get the feeling he wanted more time than the Braves were comfortable investing in.
 
mossy said:
I wonder if ownership would have allowed anyone of significance to come in if there wasn't a catastrophic reason to do so. I doubt it, but I guess we'll never know. There weren't a ton of options out there, and good pitchers get ridiculous money for even a one year deal.

Would you guys have rather kept Hudson over Santana? Would Hudson have stayed for one year? I get the feeling he wanted more time than the Braves were comfortable investing in.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Ownership only approved the Santana deal after was major disaster. Who could the Braves have gotten to replace Hudson that would have fit in the budget? Who was available to sign or trade for?
 
AUTiger7222 said:
I'm not saying you didn't. I'm not on this board 24/7/365. I'm just saying I have never seen you list any names as replacements for Hudson.
Click to expand...

We've had this discussion SO MANY times. Back when it looked like Hudson was gone, several of us went back and forth with interesting (realistic) possibilities. In those discussions, I also pointed out how important it was to replace him because Beachy could not be counted on to survive even a month in the rotation.
 
Dalyn said:
We've had this discussion SO MANY times. Back when it looked like Hudson was gone, several of us went back and forth with interesting (realistic) possibilities. In those discussions, I also pointed out how important it was to replace him because Beachy could not be counted on to survive even a month in the rotation.
Click to expand...

I wasn't on her during that time period. I was too caught up with school.
 
Dalyn said:
Probably thinking of Heyward. I confuse you two sometimes. He accused me of being negative about Beachy and said how he would be fine and blah blah blah.
Click to expand...

So i was wrong on Beachy, he had a minor cleanup but hey it is what it is.

Even still, saying/thinking Meds/Minor/Beachy all would have injuries is insane, two season-ending, no one saw that coming.
 
Dalyn said:
Probably thinking of Heyward. I confuse you two sometimes. He accused me of being negative about Beachy and said how he would be fine and blah blah blah.
Click to expand...

Well you couldn't have been negative about Beachy because there was no guarantees with him with him having to have the additional surgery last year. But there was never any signs Medlen would get hurt again. He had come back strong and never missed a beat. No one knew Minor would battle shoulder tenderness although it could have been thought of considering he pitched more innings last year than he ever had before and sometimes it takes pitchers a little longer to recover the next year from the previous year's workload. But they usually end up fine and I see no reason Minor won't end up fine. He probably would be fine if it wasn't for his unfortunate surgery.
 
AUTiger7222 said:
Well you couldn't have been negative about Beachy because there was no guarantees with him with him having to have the additional surgery last year. But there was never any signs Medlen would get hurt again. He had come back strong and never missed a beat. No one knew Minor would battle shoulder tenderness although it could have been thought of considering he pitched more innings last year than he ever had before and sometimes it takes pitchers a little longer to recover the next year from the previous year's workload. But they usually end up fine and I see no reason Minor won't end up fine. He probably would be fine if it wasn't for his unfortunate surgery.
Click to expand...

But Wren went forward hoping (and preparing) for Beachy to start all year. That was a clear mistake on his part. (and he ALSO knew about Minor's unfortunate surgery)
 
Dalyn said:
But Wren went forward hoping (and preparing) for Beachy starting all year. That was a clear mistake on his part. (and he ALSO knew about Minor's unfortunate surgery)
Click to expand...

Yes counting on Beachy was a mistake. But you can't go out and sign Ervin Santana if he doesn't fit within the budget. You can't trade for David Price or Jeff Samardiza when the asking price is through the roof on both guys.
 
I remember discussing Capuano with Dalyn a couple times. I'm not sure who else he had in mind.

The reports I'm seen indicate the Braves had interest in Floyd, Capuano and Chen this past off-season. Apparently they had budget for one of them but not more. I think Floyd has the most upside of those three and I'm fine with the choice the front office made.

They could have created budget for a second one if for example they had not traded for Doumit.

The prices for guys like Capuano and Maholm did drop as the off-season wore on. But at the time we made the choice to sign Floyd I believe their asking prices were a bit higher. Now there is an interesting question of whether we should have signed one of those two once their price dropped rather than bring back Garcia.
 
Dalyn said:
We've had this discussion SO MANY times. Back when it looked like Hudson was gone, several of us went back and forth with interesting (realistic) possibilities. In those discussions, I also pointed out how important it was to replace him because Beachy could not be counted on to survive even a month in the rotation.
Click to expand...

Wren was looking to get someone on a one year deal. That is the reason why Hudson left. Looking at the free agent market place. Who all was available for a one year deal? There aren't that many that don't have some kind of issues going on. Everyone else is trying to get that multi year deal which is what Wren did not want to do. I just don't see how anyone could expect both Beachy and Medlen to go down for the entire year before the season even started. Not counting on Beachy to last much of the season is one thing. To not even throw a pitch along with Medlen is another. And the intial reports on Minor had him missing about a week of ST and maybe a week of the regular season not almost a month. It's unfortunate but it is what it is. If any rotation loses 3 guys in spring training it's going to look ugly and no team can plan for that.

We got lucky with the Santana situation and he effectively replaces Medlen. The rotation will be scary when the season starts but I believe Floyd will be good and when he returns the rotation will be very strong there on out.
 
Dalyn said:
But Wren went forward hoping (and preparing) for Beachy to start all year. That was a clear mistake on his part. (and he ALSO knew about Minor's unfortunate surgery)
Click to expand...

Why hoping Beachy could start all year is a bad thing? If beachy was down our starting rotation until Minor was back is Medlen, Julio, Wood, Freddy with maybe a start or 2 from Hale. Or Flip the last 2 but we know Fredi wouldn't. Then when Minor comes back Medlen, Minor, Julio, Wood Freddy, when Floyd comes back Medlen, Minor, Julio, Wood, Floyd. With some spot starts by Freddy or Hale for Wood to keep him fresh and under innings. You really can't prepare for multiple catastrophes when you're a mid market team. Wren built for the most part the best team he could. He built a team with strong depth mostly across the board (our 3B depth is pretty weak) we have likely plus players at SS, RF, LF, and 1B. The rest of our positions are filled with good players like Johnson, Gattis, Bossman, and Uggla. Latter 2 were fairly highly regarded not that long ago. I think Uggla has lost it from when he was one of the best 2B in baseball, but as long as he's not as bad as he was last year he still could be a 2-3 fWAR 2B. There's value to that.

Pitching wise we had quality depth. Medlen, Julio, and Minor are all around 3 fWAR guys, Beachy, Wood and Floyd could have filled in below.

Again, the Braves have rarely relied on a stable of pitchers to pitch significant time and most of the times they did, they stank as a team. Because if there's one thing that baseball doesn't like, it's instability.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top