sturg33
I
LOL at comparing ACA to SS and Medicare - both of which are disasters and completely insolvent. Sounds about right
Affordable Care Act
- Thread starter 57Brave
- Start date
LOL at comparing ACA to SS and Medicare - both of which are disasters and completely insolvent. Sounds about right
sturg33
I
I'm not comparing anything to anything. Just be consistent - if a woman has a right to do with her body as she chooses, does that not include insuring it?
57Brave
Well-known member
"In other words - you don't have an answer. "
No, not in other words --- in just about exactly those words. I think I ended it by telling you to research the incident and find out for yourself.
I am not trying to convince you of anything but trying to correct your misleading statements, fake catastrophes and general "made my mind up years ago" mindset.
79% - Sturg. 79%
And, you settling for that speaks volumes of the opponents of ACA .
My mother used to call that cutting off your nose to spite your face
No, not in other words --- in just about exactly those words. I think I ended it by telling you to research the incident and find out for yourself.
I am not trying to convince you of anything but trying to correct your misleading statements, fake catastrophes and general "made my mind up years ago" mindset.
79% - Sturg. 79%
And, you settling for that speaks volumes of the opponents of ACA .
My mother used to call that cutting off your nose to spite your face
sturg33
I
57 - you're honestly one of the most dense human beings I have ever met.
You constantly bring up the fact that my premiums rose by 79%. That is BECAUSE of your god Obama's new health care law. The same thing happened to millions of other people.
I've asked you a hundred times, but what is your suggestion for me to have avoided that increase - without quitting?
Oh an by the way, my premiums are about half as much as they were on the exchanges. I decided to give it a try and was not surprised by the absurd price tag. Hey - maybe Obama considers me one of the enrolls LOL
sturg33
I
57 = "Those who have based their entire political agenda on repealing have to explain why [a woman he mentioned earlier] should have to go back to being uninsured." Whatcha got?
Sturg = What was stopping her from getting the health insurance a year ago
57 = I have no idea - other than the government wasn't forcing her too
Sturg = What was stopping her from getting the health insurance a year ago
57 = I have no idea - other than the government wasn't forcing her too
acesfull86
Well-known member
You must have loved the SAT.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
I was really good at analogies because esentially it's problem solving. But I mean in reality all of them sucks.
57Brave
Well-known member
If your condition was widespread I would think Fox would have it on an endless stream.
Honestly I don't understand why your level of victim-hood doesn't make you a star on Fox right now -- think of the money ... books ... magazines.. get to meet Ted Nugent ...
maybe even the Pauls ... wow
Just, think of it
sturg33
I
Still waiting on the suggestion to avoid it... Romney didn't win
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
I was talking effect. Enrollment levels were hit. The law has survived. Good things? Probably. A lot of people who are paying more are glad to do so because their coverage is a lot better. Price per increment of value has improved. But I still wonder if this bill does that much to improve the situation, especially since so many states didn't expand Medicaid.
sturg33
I
I think you've mentioned that I'm some sort of idiot for "allowing" my premiums to go up by 79% about 100 times.
My question to you is simple, how could I have avoided such an increase?
sturg33
I
What % of the uninsured are now insured?
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
I honestly have no idea. I don't think the ACA has really put a dent in that, but I could be wrong. I think on balance the law has done some good things, but I'm not doing handsprings. One of the tiring things is the political legerdemain that went on with the bill's passing. Of course premiums were going to go up. If there wasn't going to be a general tax increase to pay for things like expanded Medicaid and improved coverage that wasn't going to be totally absorbed by the premium increases in that narrow band of policy, the money was going to have to come from somewhere. And it was a backdoor tax. Those of us who have spent a lot our careers on tax policy knew that.
I frankly don't know if this is a great step forward or not. I don't think it solves our health care issues and I don't think it's the end of freedom. Count me as an old man who has seen so much come and go that I try to keep my pulse below 60 when the political winds start blowing.
Tapate50
Well-known member
This is probably one of the most unbiased and level headed posts from the left of center I have ever seen. Kudos to you sir.
Some of your post alludes to the good, but I see a lot of red on that post in the form of tax, premiums, and debt. Thank you for being the anti-57.
In the 3 months endind the year, our carrier for our area (the only MAJOR) carrier raised rates 3x over the perious of OCT, NOV, and Dec. That was straight from a marketing rep.
sturg33
I
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
Both sides of the political aisle seem to believe in the Rumpelstiltskin concept that somehow straw can magically be spun into gold. Neither supply-side nor Keynesian economic approaches in and of themselves ensure a path to fiscal Nirvana. The job of government is to assemble a broadly-supported set of policies that require revenue and then to construct a revenue-generating system to fund that set of issues and, at least to me, the government has to go in the "front door" when they do that. What is happening on both sides of the aisle is that no one wants to be direct anymore because of the political fallout that inevitably results when segments of the population react and that reaction is turned from a drizzle into a downpour by the political spinmeisters. The sense of the common good has been destroyed (and both sides have contributed mightily to this deconstruction) and we live with those results. The "front door" is now boarded shut.
Tapate50
Well-known member
Really was never intended to be "career politicians" was there? That seems to have slowed the flow.
57Brave
Well-known member
"This is probably one of the most unbiased and level headed posts from the left of center I have ever seen."
I am truly curious how it came about that Left of Center leaners are expected to be "...unbiased and level headed" yet those of the opposite persuasion take whatever liberty's they like then squeal victim-hood when someone calls BS ?
Waiting for opponents of ACA to say something - anything level headed. Waiting for the coat hanger brigade to say anything level headed or unbiased. Guns, do we have any Red Staters willing to approach a conversation on guns "unbiased and level headed" Won't be holding my breath here
Still no conversation on how we move forward - only talk of what has happened - what has been and a bridge already crossed.
Maybe it is time to lock this thread and put it to bed because the topic (in real life) has lost its timeliness
I am truly curious how it came about that Left of Center leaners are expected to be "...unbiased and level headed" yet those of the opposite persuasion take whatever liberty's they like then squeal victim-hood when someone calls BS ?
Waiting for opponents of ACA to say something - anything level headed. Waiting for the coat hanger brigade to say anything level headed or unbiased. Guns, do we have any Red Staters willing to approach a conversation on guns "unbiased and level headed" Won't be holding my breath here
Still no conversation on how we move forward - only talk of what has happened - what has been and a bridge already crossed.
Maybe it is time to lock this thread and put it to bed because the topic (in real life) has lost its timeliness
57Brave
Well-known member
Frank Rich wrote today:
Six months ago, the Obamacare insurance exchanges began their official rollout with a government shutdown and a protracted website failure. Yesterday, the president announced that the Affordable Care Act's open-enrollment period had exceeded its goals, with at least 7.1 million Americans signing up. Obamacare has been the single most divisive issue in American politics since it was signed into law in March 2010. Is that period coming to an end? And has the president won?
It will not stop being a political issue until the end of the midterms, of course, because the Republicans have no other issue to run on this year — and Obamacare-bashing, like Obama-bashing in general, revs up its base. And the GOP will do well in the midterms, too — not because of the Affordable Care Act, per se, but because the Republican base (white, male, old) turns up in off-year elections and much of the Democratic base (the new America that is inexorably supplanting the GOP base) hibernates until presidential election years. After the midterms, Obamacare will be vastly diminished as a political issue except on the hard right, which, after all, still doesn’t like that government “health-care takeover” called Medicare either. (The new Paul Ryan budget released this week, among its other indignities, calls for replacing Medicare with a voucher system that would destroy it.) Even now the ACA isn’t wildly unpopular — the country is split 49/48 in its favor according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll — and it will gain in popularity as it takes root among those Americans who needed it and now have it. In that important sense — as policy, not politics — the president may well have won, though we won’t know for sure for several years.
Meanwhile, it’s fascinating to see how those on the right are trying to deal with defeat by yet again trying to dispute hard statistics — claiming that the 7.1 million enrollment number is a fraud. (Actually, the real number is higher, maybe as high as 10 million in some estimates, because some who signed up for Obamacare did so directly through insurers, not through the often-troubled government exchanges.) Fox News even ran a graphic that used an outdated figure for enrollments, and visually portrayed the sign-up rate (in a bar chart) as about one-third of what it actually was. This is the same kind of magical thinking that made conservative pundits attack Nate Silver during the 2012 election and talk themselves into believing that Romney was going to win. We can only hope that Karl Rove will have another breakdown on television when he faces the reality that Obamacare has won over a significant segment of the electorate just as surely as Obama took Ohio on Election Night.
Six months ago, the Obamacare insurance exchanges began their official rollout with a government shutdown and a protracted website failure. Yesterday, the president announced that the Affordable Care Act's open-enrollment period had exceeded its goals, with at least 7.1 million Americans signing up. Obamacare has been the single most divisive issue in American politics since it was signed into law in March 2010. Is that period coming to an end? And has the president won?
It will not stop being a political issue until the end of the midterms, of course, because the Republicans have no other issue to run on this year — and Obamacare-bashing, like Obama-bashing in general, revs up its base. And the GOP will do well in the midterms, too — not because of the Affordable Care Act, per se, but because the Republican base (white, male, old) turns up in off-year elections and much of the Democratic base (the new America that is inexorably supplanting the GOP base) hibernates until presidential election years. After the midterms, Obamacare will be vastly diminished as a political issue except on the hard right, which, after all, still doesn’t like that government “health-care takeover” called Medicare either. (The new Paul Ryan budget released this week, among its other indignities, calls for replacing Medicare with a voucher system that would destroy it.) Even now the ACA isn’t wildly unpopular — the country is split 49/48 in its favor according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll — and it will gain in popularity as it takes root among those Americans who needed it and now have it. In that important sense — as policy, not politics — the president may well have won, though we won’t know for sure for several years.
Meanwhile, it’s fascinating to see how those on the right are trying to deal with defeat by yet again trying to dispute hard statistics — claiming that the 7.1 million enrollment number is a fraud. (Actually, the real number is higher, maybe as high as 10 million in some estimates, because some who signed up for Obamacare did so directly through insurers, not through the often-troubled government exchanges.) Fox News even ran a graphic that used an outdated figure for enrollments, and visually portrayed the sign-up rate (in a bar chart) as about one-third of what it actually was. This is the same kind of magical thinking that made conservative pundits attack Nate Silver during the 2012 election and talk themselves into believing that Romney was going to win. We can only hope that Karl Rove will have another breakdown on television when he faces the reality that Obamacare has won over a significant segment of the electorate just as surely as Obama took Ohio on Election Night.