Trump Indictment Watch

Ah, so its the banks fault Trump lied on financial documents that he was legally obligated to atleast attempt to make accurate. Thats right up there with "She shouldnt have worn that short skirt while walking down that back alley". Maybe a bank robber can argue its the banks fault for not having enough security to stop them. Genius legal arguments you people have.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Genius legal arguments you people have.
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We're right as well. Can't wait to watch your face when the appellate or SCOTUS laughs this out of court. If you're worried about accuracy why don't we talk about the judge and the appraiser he used saying Mar-a-Lago was worth 20 million.

Appraisal values do not equal market value.
 
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The bank didn’t “take my word for it” on the house I was buying.

I deal with numerous owners all day every day that don’t know their Sq footage or year built of their own properties
 
Garmel said:
We're right as well. Can't wait to watch your face when the appellate or SCOTUS laughs this out of court. If you're worried about accuracy why don't we talk about the judge and the appraiser he used saying Mar-a-Lago was worth 20 million.

Appraisal values do not equal market value.
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Unfortunately we already know your response to Trump losing his appeals in this case since I dont think theres one court case you have been wrong about that you have accepted. Which is quite a few at this point. I will leave the door open to some of the case being thrown out based on statute of limitations or some technicality like that which doesnt exonerate Trump of guilt but there is no chance whatsoever he wins on the actual merits of the case. None. And for, I think the third time now, the Judge did not rule that Maralago was only worth 20 million. He only cited that number as a low end estimate of the worth of the property.
 
Tapate50 said:
The bank didn’t “take my word for it” on the house I was buying.

I deal with numerous owners all day every day that don’t know their Sq footage or year built of their own properties
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I dont understand why you think a bank failing to do their due diligence exonerates a person for lying on their financial disclosure forms. A person might not know the square footage of their house but I think we can agree nobody in their right mind would estimate a 2,000 square foot house is 6,000 square feet much less a veteran real estate developer. Beyond that they have records showing Trump knew the correct square footage at other times and I would think considering his apartment was in the building that he built he would have access to records that tell him the right square footage. Lets not forget Trump claims he has one of the all time greatest memories and is a very stable genius. But he conveniently tripled the size of his apartment on accident. Give me a break.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Unfortunately we already know your response to Trump losing his appeals in this case since I dont think theres one court case you have been wrong about that you have accepted. Which is quite a few at this point. I will leave the door open to some of the case being thrown out based on statute of limitations or some technicality like that which doesnt exonerate Trump of guilt but there is no chance whatsoever he wins on the actual merits of the case. None. And for, I think the third time now, the Judge did not rule that Maralago was only worth 20 million. He only cited that number as a low end estimate of the worth of the property.
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You can just rehash reality however you want but it's not up to the court to decide what's a fair assessment of the property and that's what the judge did. That's what the free market job dictates, not that moron. They don't even have a victim of any sort that's complaining. Not one person or bank has complained.
 
cajunrevenge said:
I dont understand why you think a bank failing to do their due diligence exonerates a person for lying on their financial disclosure forms. A person might not know the square footage of their house but I think we can agree nobody in their right mind would estimate a 2,000 square foot house is 6,000 square feet much less a veteran real estate developer. Beyond that they have records showing Trump knew the correct square footage at other times and I would think considering his apartment was in the building that he built he would have access to records that tell him the right square footage. Lets not forget Trump claims he has one of the all time greatest memories and is a very stable genius. But he conveniently tripled the size of his apartment on accident. Give me a break.
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Yet, they corrected it on their own. Mistakes, typos, etc. can happen. Did he do this to any other property? If not then it was probably an honest mistake.
 
Uh oh, looks like Allen Weaselberg may have committed perjury. His plea deal was conditioned on his truthful testimony in future trials. Would be a shame to see him go back to prison. I think he was looking at 20 years. Hope he ends up doing every day of it.
 
Garmel said:
You can just rehash reality however you want but it's not up to the court to decide what's a fair assessment of the property and that's what the judge did. That's what the free market job dictates, not that moron. They don't even have a victim of any sort that's complaining. Not one person or bank has complained.
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The court didnt set a value on the property, only that it was grossly over valued. Trumps properties arent unique. There are precedents and similar properties in which value can be assessed. Theoretically I can say my 94 Nissan Altima is worth eleven billion dollars. And even if I somehow got someone to pay eleven billion dollars the value of the car still wouldnt change just because someone overpaid for it. If Trump has just slightly exaggerated the value of these properties there would be merit to this argument. Maybe he could get more than its worth but the issue is he took it to a gross extreme. Only one apartment in NY has ever sold for 100 million dollars. Trump listed his own apartment at a value over 300 million. Thats not an exaggeration thats a fantasy world. If he did this to just one property maybe its a mistake and maybe he just overvalued it, but he did it to almost all his properties. As for no victim, its not required. Theres plenty of people in prison for crimes with no victim. And this isnt even a criminal case. I however dispute that theres no victim. Let me ask you, what do you think would happen if any of these banks filed a complaint about the fraudulent financial disclosures? Trump would retaliate against them and encourage his cult to boycott them causing them to lose money.
 
cajunrevenge said:
The court didnt set a value on the property, only that it was grossly over valued.
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Who determines that it's grossly overvalued? You might as well turn your libertarian card when you think the government has a right to rule by fiat that he overvalued his properties. The free market does that and the banks agreed to that price. It is up to the banks to determine the value for themselves. All your cult statements are absolute bull**** with no facts. In fact, If he did overstate the price the banks actually made more money, not less. There is no victim here and this is nothing more that the typical lawfare than we expect from a deranged blue state.

Yes, they corrected in 2017 the value and square footage of the penthouse on their own. They thought it was bigger but it wasn't. You'll notice they set the price at $116 million after being corrected.
 
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Garmel said:
Yet, they corrected it on their own. Mistakes, typos, etc. can happen. Did he do this to any other property? If not then it was probably an honest mistake.
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Where and when did they correct the mistake? In the Judges ruling it cites that Forbes notified Trump in writing that he had incorrectly listed the square footage and no correction was made.



Heres some more from the Judge ruling.


Seven Springs Estate was appraised in 2000, 2006, 2012, an 2014 at 30 million or less by an neutral party. Trump listed its value at 261 million in his financial disclosures.


Trump Park Avenue building had 12 unsold rent stabilized units appraised by a neutral party as worth 750k. Trump inflated that value by 700% in his disclosures. They were appraised again in 2020 and he again inflated the value by 61% in disclosures. They defended the valuation saying that maybe, potentially, these units could no longer be subject to NY rent control laws but by law they have the include current value not what they one day believe they could be worth.


40 Wall Street. Trump has a ground lease on the property and a neutral party appraised it at 200-220 million in 2010 and Trump listed it as worth 524 million. Mazars accountant David Bender testified that he asked Trump employee Jeffrey McConney did not provide them with this appraisal when they asked if they had any appraisals for the property. Showing intent to deceive.


Maralago. The value of the property did not take into consideration the restrictions on the property that Trump agreed to that does not allow the property to be used for anything other than a social club. Trumps argument does not dispute that they did not factor in the restrictions, his argument was that they could get out of the agreements through lawsuits if they wanted to do so in the future. Even if true they are only allowed to use the current valuation which has the restrictions in place.


Aberdeen - Trump has a golf course in Aberdeen Scottland. The relevant valuations are for the non-golf course part of the property that required approval from the local government to build. This is a complicated one so I will oversimply it. They had permission to build 500 homes that had restrictions on their use. Trump submitted a valuation assuming they had permission to build 2035 homes on the property.


US Golf courses - The Judge found that Trump applied a 15-30% brand premium on the value of 7 golf courses despite specifically stating in the financial disclosures that brand value had not been included.


In April 2014 Trump National Golf Course in Briarcliff was appraised by a neutral party at 16 million. That same year Trump listed it as worth 73 million. Trump argued that he was not bound to use the market value and instead he can value the property by aggregating the money spent to aquire and maintain the property. Problem is in Trumps financial disclosures it specifically states that "assets are stated at their current assessed value". The Judge goes on to point out that just because you paid a certain price for something doesnt make it worth that much. Much like if someone bought my 94 Nissan Altima for 100k it still wouldnt be worth 100k just because someone overpaid for it.


Vornado Partnership Properties - Trump has a 30% limited partnership stake in Vornado Realty which does not allow him to use or withdraw any money held by the partnership. The issue is he included as a liquid/cash asset. Falsely representing that he had access to 14 million to 93 million held by the partnership. A neutral party appraisal valued the value of Vornado at 2 billion in 2012 and 2.3 billion in 2016. Trump stated the value of Vornado at around 3 billion which caused his 30% stake to be overvalued by about 300 million.


Licensing Deals - Trump represented in his disclosures that it only included licensing deals and associations with other parties but actually includes intra organization deals caused an overvaluation of 100-200 million depending on the particular year.




Do you get the picture now?
 
It's right here. I get the picture that you're hearing a lot of bull**** that isn't true. You still can't seem to figure out the banks and Trump determine value, not some idiot on the bench.

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Garmel said:
Who determines that it's grossly overvalued? You might as well turn your libertarian card when you think the government has a right to rule by fiat that he overvalued his properties. The free market does that and the banks agreed to that price. It is up to the banks to determine the value for themselves. All your cult statements are absolute bull**** with no facts. In fact, If he did overstate the price the banks actually made more money, not less. There is no victim here and this is nothing more that the typical lawfare than we expect from a deranged blue state.

Yes, they corrected in 2017 the value and square footage of the penthouse on their own. They thought it was bigger but it wasn't. You'll notice they set the price at $116 million after being corrected.
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- Show me something where they corrected it. It was certainly not corrected before Forbes told them it was wrong. Emails from the company in 2017 show a Trump spokesperson telling another Trump employee not to engage on the size of the apartment per Weaselbergs order and a week later Trumps financial statment was released still using the incorrect square footage. Documents also show that they were using the correct square footage before these loan applications so I guess a veteran real estate developer claiming to have one of the greatest memories of all time and a self professed very stable genius forgot the square footage of his own apartment. Yeah, thats sounds plausible.


- The market determines the price. They use the price other similar assets sell for to appraise the value of other assets. In the case of Trumps apartment case only one apartment had ever sold for 100 million and Trump valued his at over 3 times the highest price any apartment had ever sold for. Theres no point to the appraisal business if people can just make up any imaginary number they want. I am a billionaire because I think my 94 Nissan Altima is worth 11 billion dollars.


- How could the banks make more money because Trump over valued his own properties. They were collateral in case he defaulted on his loans. Thats the point. I am no expert on finance but dont banks charge more based on increased risk? You keep citing things like "no victim" that have no relevance to the law. It has as much relevance as if you told me a story about how bozo the clown touched you in your no no place at a circus in 1978.
 
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