Grading Waldrep's Stuff

Southcack77 said:
I mean if we can isolate the effectiveness of the pitch now when it's apparently in good sequence with other quality pitches...

Seems like we could isolate it when it wasn't in sequence with good pitches and see just how shitty it was on its own?
Click to expand...
Is the argument about a shitty splitter or the revamped mechanisms allowing him to get to a pitch that can get people out?
 
Southcack77 said:
Pretty sure the contention is the splitter is itself shitty but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...
I don’t think the contention is that it’s shitty per se. The contention is that, while solid, it’s not an elite death-pitch splitter, just a useable pitch that needs to be properly sequenced with other quality pitches to be optimally effective.
 
Deester11 said:
Lmfao....I just want to know who said it was deadly. That word has caused much consternation 😂😂😂
Click to expand...
Think a FG write up called it deadly.

So far the results this year have been deadly while the data are not. So is it deadly without deadly data? Or is it deadly solely based on deadly sequencing and or deadly tunneling while just being average?
 
Enscheff said:
I find it a little odd that some folks are having such a hard time understanding a pitch that isn't remarkable itself can be effective when part of a sequence including other pitches, some of which are remarkable themselves.

And now that the discussion has moved into the realm of arguing semantics, I'll leave interpretation of the movement data to the reader. That data is freely available for all to see and compare to the movement data of other pitches thrown by other pitchers.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's like saying throwing rock in a game of rock paper scissors is bad because rock isn't exceptional. If you have no idea what is coming, rock can surprise you

If your pitches all look the same out of your hand and you change speeds and eye level, it can make average movement play up.

In fact, you can have better movement but if everything looks different out of your hand and is the same speed, you'll get shelled.
 
I think the focus shouldnt be so much on one pitch. Pitches work off of each other. The question I have with any pitcher is does he have an out pitch. We have seen so many prospects come up who cant put batters away. They keep fouling pitches off until they can something to hit or walk. Almost all his strikeouts come from the Splitter. Its his most used pitch and the best results have been 1 single. Its got a whiff rate of 55%! That tells me all I need to know. His curveball grades out well I hear and that shows in the Whiff%. 66%. Thats all a small sample size against sub par competition so we will see what it looks like come seasons end but if he can dominate the bad teams and just be mediocre vs the good ones thats an all star.


The biggest positive to me is Waldreps ground ball rate. If he can maintain anywhere close to a 50% GB rate he is going to be good.
 
A pitch that is primarily thrown with 2 strikes will have better results than a pitch thrown early in the count, or when behind in the count.

The data very clearly shows how much the split moves compared to other splits thrown by other MLB pitchers. That data is objective and irrefutable, and it very clearly shows the pitch itself isn’t overly remarkable. I’m not sure why folks insist on arguing against factual data.

It’s nothing more than arguing semantics because the data doesn’t match the narrative some people have in their heads. A pitch that pairs well with another pitch is not deadly, rather the combination of pitches is deadly, and the other pitch is just as deadly. The fact one is typically thrown after the other doesn’t make the latter pitch more remarkable.
 
Southcack77 said:
Pretty sure the contention is the splitter is itself shitty but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...
Yes, as usual your attempt at arguing for no real season leads to you being wrong. Nobody has ever said it was a shitty pitch.

The split is not a remarkable pitch. When it is paired with the cutter and the sinker and the breaking ball the results have been impressive.

If that’s too nuanced for you I suggest allowing the adults to talk.
 
Enscheff said:
A pitch that is primarily thrown with 2 strikes will have better results than a pitch thrown early in the count, or when behind in the count.

The data very clearly shows how much the split moves compared to other splits thrown by other MLB pitchers. That data is objective and irrefutable, and it very clearly shows the pitch itself isn’t overly remarkable. I’m not sure why folks insist on arguing against factual data.

It’s nothing more than arguing semantics because the data doesn’t match the narrative some people have in their heads. A pitch that pairs well with another pitch is not deadly, rather the combination of pitches is deadly, and the other pitch is just as deadly. The fact one is typically thrown after the other doesn’t make the latter pitch more remarkable.
Click to expand...


Theres a lot more to pitching than movement. All that matters is does it work as an out pitch. And thats a yes or no question. It does. Comparing its movement to other splitters is pointless. What matters a whole lot more is how similar it looks to other pitches and how well hitters can pick it up coming out of their hand.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Theres a lot more to pitching than movement. All that matters is does it work as an out pitch. And thats a yes or no question. It does. Comparing its movement to other splitters is pointless. What matters a whole lot more is how similar it looks to other pitches and how well hitters can pick it up coming out of their hand.
Click to expand...
Not only has his splitter routinely been called a great pitch by everyone that has seen it, but it has consistently generated a ton of swing and miss. Even when he was struggling and getting lit up like a Christmas tree last year in the majors last year, he was still generating a whiff rate of 40% on that pitch. So even a year ago it rated among the better splitters in the game.

But somehow Scheff gets bent out of shape when someone calls it "deadly."
 
If I can be serious for a minute here. Semantics is the go to tool for both the stupid and the smart but not those in between. Stupid people do it because they arent smart enough to know what a good argument is. Smart people do it because they can always find some angle to try to justify their opinion. In this case Deadly would be accurate because its the pitch he uses successfully to strikeout hitters which kills the at bat. But dont let the sand get to your nether regions cheff. You are the big brain. No ones denying that. Doesnt make your opinions infallible. Lets just all agree the Yankees suck and Derek Jeter is a bitch and move on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top