2016 Presidential Primaries [ SUPER TUESDAY | 3-1-'16]

goldfly said:
:cheers

i don't see how you can honestly sit there and say everything that happened only because someone started an unjust war somewhere (no matter how bad they have handled it or their ideas to "fix" it have gone) is just as bad as the person who actually started the path that way for no good reason

but i am tired of going around in circles
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It sounds more like you are getting tired of sticking your head in the sand.

I've blamed Bush for a poor military strategy in Iraq many times before. But that's the extent of it.

Obama confounded a problem -- he didn't try to fix anything.

I mean, what do you think he actually tried to fix and/or handle? He took the troops out.
 
Hawk said:
It sounds more like you are getting tired of sticking your head in the sand.

I've blamed Bush for a poor military strategy in Iraq many times before. But that's the extent of it.

Obama confounded a problem -- he didn't try to fix anything.

I mean, what do you think he actually tried to fix and/or handle? He took the troops out.
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So when could we have brought the troops home? Or should they stay there forever?
 
sturg33 said:
So when could we have brought the troops home? Or should they stay there forever?
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Ideally, when the country was stable and able to walk on its own two legs.

I'm not advocating this, but we do still have troops in Germany, South Korea, Japan, etc.
 
Hawk said:
It sounds more like you are getting tired of sticking your head in the sand.

I've blamed Bush for a poor military strategy in Iraq many times before. But that's the extent of it.

Obama confounded a problem -- he didn't try to fix anything.

I mean, what do you think he actually tried to fix and/or handle? He took the troops out.
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i haven't taken a side other than saying it is absurd to say whatever ideas or was done after the person that started it all aren't equal

that's it

never said he has done a good job etc

2 comes after 1 and the numbers aren't equal
 
Hawk said:
Ideally, when the country was stable and able to walk on its own two legs.

I'm not advocating this, but we do still have troops in Germany, South Korea, Japan, etc.
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The country was stable before we went in. The invasion basically destroyed all semblance of stabilization. We either stay there forever - committing trillions of dollars and too many lost lives, or we pull the plug.
 
sturg33 said:
The country was stable before we went in. The invasion basically destroyed all semblance of stabilization.
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LOL. That's some dangerously egregious revisionism, but I don't have the time to go down that rabbit hole today.

We either stay there forever - committing trillions of dollars and too many lost lives, or we pull the plug.
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This is where your fiscal view taints your world view.
 
Hawk said:
Ideally, when the country was stable and able to walk on its own two legs.

I'm not advocating this, but we do still have troops in Germany, South Korea, Japan, etc.
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True, but we kept troops in those places long after they were stable and functioning states for reasons completely unrelated to their internal security (i.e. as a check against external threats from USSR/DPRK/PRC). We've already spent significantly more (in today's dollars) on reconstruction in Iraq than we spent on Germany under the Marshall plan. It's an interesting question, though.
 
Julio3000 said:
True, but we kept troops in those places long after they were stable and functioning states for reasons completely unrelated to their internal security (i.e. as a check against external threats from USSR/DPRK/PRC). We've already spent significantly more (in today's dollars) on reconstruction in Iraq than we spent on Germany under the Marshall plan. It's an interesting question, though.
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Regardless of the reason those forces were tasked initially (and subsequently), I was just noting that there is a precedent for keeping military abroad in situations where there is no imminent threat.

One has to ask; would keeping an American military base in the Middle East not be strategically advantageous?
 
Hawk said:
Of course, but the notion that one should govern the other (no matter which) is one that should be disposed of in short order.
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Yeah, I agree. Throwing good money after bad is certainly not desirable, but we may be faced with the choice to do something similar in the future and can't dismiss it out of hand.
 
Julio3000 said:
Yeah, I agree. Throwing good money after bad is certainly not desirable, but we may be faced with the choice to do something similar in the future and can't dismiss it out of hand.
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My whole contention is fighting in the ME is an unwinnable game... and there's no use in flushing more money down the toilet in pursuing it.

Not to mention the countless lost lives
 
Jeb Bush gets spineless on Indiana Law.
Expect to see the Terry Schiavo episode revisited in primary season ------ if not sooner

Paul has been quiet on Indiana which is wise on his part.
He looks to be the politically savviest of the bunch.

Will spare everyone what that means to me
 
sturg33 said:
My whole contention is fighting in the ME is an unwinnable game... and there's no use in flushing more money down the toilet in pursuing it.

Not to mention the countless lost lives
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I take that to mean you are pleased with Iranian diplomatic progress ?
 
you really dont see this as progress ?

.....

This was written by a friend :

"Making war is easy, making treaties that lay the groundwork for peace is tough, risky business. That's why hard=liners on both sides will be opposed. It's a lot easier to say "Bomb Iran" or "Death to America" than it is to take the actions that might lead to understanding. When the comfort zone is fear, ignorance and hatred, attempts to make peace will always be ridiculed by some. But the good news is it CAN work. It worked in Northern Ireland. The SALT/START treaties worked (by worked I mean we're still here). If this treaty works the new comfort zone will be one of tolerance and accomodation, not necessarily friendship, but it's better than "Bomb Iran" and "Death to America".
 
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